Grand Magister (Final Boss)

[Hollow Erto]

So, before I start with anything related to the Grand Magister, I would like to say that I really enjoyed the game and it quickly became my most favourite turn based RPG in this DD subgenre. I even stated that in my review, and since the Grand Magister is the only thing I didn't like about the game, I don't want to just randomly mention it in my overally positive review, that's why I am using forums to express my thoughts about it.

So, why do I think the other 4 bosses work perfectly fine and are balanced, original and can be defeated using multiple different strategies, whereas the Grand Magister is really just a big disappointment and bad game design at the same time?

Well, no matter the different mechanics of the other bosses, all of the fights are a single battle. It usually revolves around a big strong unit summoning smaller weaker ones, and each of the bosses interestingly varies this principle slightly. Now there are various approaches you can take, you can burst the bosses with heavy hitters, render his units insane, or control them with AOE attacks and slowly chip away the boss, and all that while having the freedom of using both magic or physical attacks. Now granted, the second boss kinda limits the approach to controling the smaller units, or making him insane, but even then, there are many ways and units that can help you achieve that.

But then there is a Grand Magister. And boy is he a badly designed fight. First of all, every boss before him, had a clear description as to what twist you can expect from him. This one only has his switching ability described and that is all. So, you check his stats, you decide your team is strong enough to take him on, so you don't retreat immediately and try to kill him. But then, out of nowhere he respawns, and if that weren't enough, with all his adds. Now I get it, it's supposed to be that BIG SURPRISING SECOND PHASE right? Fine then, but the problem is, once you order your already injured units to retreat and come back to the battle again, he is back to phase one full HP with all his adds, and you can enjoy the ride again.

Now my problem is, that the game taught you, that every single fight ends either by killing all the enemy units or making them escape. It also taught you, that the damage you deal to your enemies persists even if you lose or retreat. Grand Magister fight ignores both of these premises the game taught you. And that is a major game design flaw in my opinion. So if you come unprepared and you already lose one or two units in the fight, thinking that after the first phase is done, the fight is over, well congratulations, you just lost two units in vain, and if you don't have some replacement prepared, then your run is pretty much screwed.

To beat the fight itself though, that's another story. Since you have to defeat 8 units in succession without being able to heal or change your party in between, the spike in difficulty is huge. And it's extremely cheap at the same moment. No longer you can alternate different strategies in fights, sanity-aimed parties are completely useless here, as well as vast majority of other high dps units. The only way I've managed to beat it, was to restart the whole floor, learn the spell that restores everyone to full health, and equip the items, so that I could use it at least three times during the fight. Then, at the last phase, when only the boss was remaining, I had to pray the he would only attack my skeleton, so my only two DPS heroes would survive long enough to kill him. Had I failed this attempt, I was screwed, because I had no more brains to create the same party I had equipped for this fight.

And of course, I understand, there are some tryhard strategies that many already created, that would storm through the entire fight without losing a single vigor point. Great, that's cool. I was also expecting to get into those. But on normal difficulty, I just created one unit from every type so I could experiment on which unit is best in which situations. And this boss almost ended my run literally one fight before the end, even though I managed to beat all the other floors without being close to complete loss. Yeah, the difficulty spike is that big.

Oh and can we also talk how unoriginal and bland and boring he is? I am not saying the other bosses were a pinnacle of human creativity, but they didn't disappoint me in any way and always offered a new fun mechanic that was never in the game before. Grand Magister is simply a stronger guy with three elite minions. Twice. Yeah, technically having to fight 8 units in succession was a mechanic that wasn't anywhere in the game before, true. But I already talked why that is a bad game design.

So, while I don't expect this to be patched in any way just because one random guy ranted on the Steam forums, if I could ask one thing, at least warn players about his second phase in his description in some subtle way like "If he dies, heavens won't be pleased." That way players could at least predict, that what they see when they enter the fight might not be all and will reconsider to retreat and change their party to something more suitable. And raise the chances of dropped brains from killed minions in this fight, at least on normal difficulty.

Thanks to anyone that read it as far as here, and once again I am reminding you, despite this big rant, I could write a thread ten times bigger just about how good the game is. I really like it. It's just a shame that one stupid fight almost ruined my enjoyment from it.

[Darkgecko]

I was just about to post something almost identical to this. Great game, trash fight. The fact that you do not have the option to actually acquire more parts to go in on multiple attempts is a huge drawback as you are learning it. My biggest grief is that I am certainly interested in multiple playthroughs of this game, but I would like to actually have all minions available and that can not happen until I beat this final boss, which I can not do now as he has shredded all my quality minions. I now have to restart the entire game and spend more time wandering hallways to have enough parts and experience to have a valid attempt on him.

[Hollow Erto]

Darkgecko lähetti viestin:

I was just about to post something almost identical to this. Great game, trash fight. The fact that you do not have the option to actually acquire more parts to go in on multiple attempts is a huge drawback as you are learning it. My biggest grief is that I am certainly interested in multiple playthroughs of this game, but I would like to actually have all minions available and that can not happen until I beat this final boss, which I can not do now as he has shredded all my quality minions. I now have to restart the entire game and spend more time wandering hallways to have enough parts and experience to have a valid attempt on him.

Luckily I was able to do it with only restarting the last floor, but I was still pretty much pissed about replaying it, especially without having any insurance, that this time I will beat him..

[Vosker]

Darkgecko lähetti viestin:

I was just about to post something almost identical to this. Great game, trash fight. The fact that you do not have the option to actually acquire more parts to go in on multiple attempts is a huge drawback as you are learning it. My biggest grief is that I am certainly interested in multiple playthroughs of this game, but I would like to actually have all minions available and that can not happen until I beat this final boss, which I can not do now as he has shredded all my quality minions. I now have to restart the entire game and spend more time wandering hallways to have enough parts and experience to have a valid attempt on him.

You do not have all minions from the start because devs want you to try different minions through your play and not to stick to some strat. When you are opening a new unit, you are like, hey I wanna try this or how will this work. You will check this and find new and unexpected strategies. This is a good way to teach player and should not be changed.

[Hollow Erto]

I agree, I do not want them to change the unlocking of minions, that mechanic is great and it's sure fun to work towards unlocking them, as well as getting forced into different playstyles, as I said, I myself always had one each type of the minion present, but it's even more shame though, that the final boss is the only combat in the game, that forces you into one specific strat, which is high tanks in front, high DPS in the back and mana/HP sustain spells, and doesn't let you experiment with different strats, for example, if you only won your fights throughout the game using four DPS minions, that die fast, but also kill fast, your run ends here.

[Darkgecko]

Oh I have no problem with the unlock mechanic. I like having goals to reach as I play. What was frustrating was that all the other unlocks occur organically as a course of playing the game (i.e. collect bones, recruit vampires etc) and could be progressed upon a fresh restart. The two unlocked by beating the final boss are very restrictive in that play time does not progress you, only success in one arbitrary fight. Now once I realised I could reload the checkpoint at 5th stage and was not required to complete the entire game this was mitigated, but I still think the fight itself is bland.

[HellSlayer]

Very hard game tbh, Im not sure if last boss is that bad, its definately limits what type of party can deal with it.

Other bosses you can kill with various party combinations, last boss limiting that very much. But oh well, for normal difficulty its ok, doable.

[[Linux] Drinky Crow]

Darkgecko lähetti viestin:

The fact that you do not have the option to actually acquire more parts to go in on multiple attempts is a huge drawback

100% agree. I don't mind starting the boss from the beginning after you fail, but not being able to acquire more parts / experience before trying again is rather ridiculous. I think they could fix this by simply making it possible to explore other branches of the map.

[[Linux] Drinky Crow]

I finally beat the Grand Magister with the Lost Soul, Mummy, Wraith, and Shade. Stressed the enemies until murdering them with the Shade.

I had to restart from the checkpoint; replaying the floor was considerably annoying.

[roknor65]

Just wanted to update the thread. On GAW, I used a bone golem, headless hunter, mummy,
and Werewolf to win. Didnt lose any minions. didnt come close to losing any minions.

I used headhunter to remove wards/blocks, and do damage. Werewolf got the full moon buff and took out anyone in the 3-4 position.

i did use the vampire potions on the headless and werewolf so they could replenish their health.

Mummy was used to pull enemies where i wanted them, but in retrospect, a 3rd heavy damage dealer wouldve been better. golem just cast 2 block shield on whoever needed it and interrupted the boss' stance.

Mummy removed debuffs , so if replace mummy, keep that in mind.

I killed minions 1st, and then the boss in both fights.

I had full wrath most of the fight. had all of the wrath upgrades in both graveyard and spell/alchemy research area.

had enchanted heart on bone golem, and he had well over 200 health. had the 20 hp buff from 4 uncommon parts.

as for spells, i just used hail of teeth to remove blocks and whip to position my guys.

make sure you have whip and hail of teeth for this fight as there are a lot blocks and your guys get shuffled out of position a good bit and its crucial to get bone golem in 1st slot to interrupt boss' stance.