Safety Rating too primitive and unfair - VERY demotivating

[Andrix]

Is it really necessary to do such primitive rating system to give ALWAYS both Cars involved in contact a safety penalty ?!

This is in so many situations completely unfair and demotivating!!

Monza Race: Clean Qualify, Clean Startphase, Breaking first corner, all alligned, some noobs from the back crash up the WHOLE field!! Severe Damage Rear.

Driving out of first Corner, in the second fast corner, car stand still in middle of the corner, no chance to avoid contact and severe front damage.

Race over, absolutey nothin done wrong, -2 SA !! :(((

Wouldn't it at least be possible to teach the system that in following situations there is ONLY 1 car to get a SA penatly:

1.) Massive late braking
2.) Standing still or extremly slow on track
3.) Crash after Re-Entering Track

=> All these situations should be EASILY detected by an algorithm, so WHY NOT DONE YET ??

SIM is AWESOME by the way, so why ruin it with such not necessary unfair flaws... ??

[Protonv5]

Publicado originalmente por FLV Tavish/Pierre-André GER:

Publicado originalmente por Protonv5:

How's that report system in ACC working? Oh wait. There isn't one.
How's the replay submission option where you can challenge a safety rating drop in ACC? Oh, there isn't one.
Who's the LIAR now, Wylie? Loser. Hmm?
YOU Wylie, are what's wrong with sim racing.
And now you're blocked. Bwahhahahah! LMAO!

And you Proton V5, you always have something to whine about. Buy a Kotzbeutel you can full riders. If something does not go in your opinion, you go to the general public and come with stupid comments!

Actually, I state some facts, many people get bothered. Isn't that something? Lol.
Then I get insulted, as usual, called a liar etc, then I give it right back. It's always the same pattern. Then I get called out for being the problem.
It was a discussion, but as my opinion was not liked (by the usual suspects), the thread then turns stupid. So thanks for putting the blame on me.

Game is perfect
Kunos is the best
We get it.

Thanks

[MakeMeLaugh]

Publicado originalmente por racdavies:

Publicado originalmente por MakeMeLaugh:

What bothers me the most is the fact that you lose SA against AI. They should change it so you don't lose SA against AI and can only get up to like 20~30 SA against them as well.

And for multiplayer, not only SA but penalties as well are a problem. Was in Monza, main straight right at the start, obviously someone decides to turn their car over the rear of my car. As I got out of control literally spinning, cutting the chicane, I get a 10s stop and go penalty for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cutting. Unreal.

Did you slow down though and were there cones for you to go round.

First Monza chicane. We are all on the main straight full throttle, right before braking zone guy turns into my car and I instantly go into a spin. I was a passenger, nothing I could have done, I ended up at the exit of the chicane, in the grass at the right side of the track going into curva grande. Instanly got a penalty once I hit the wall there.

Publicado originalmente por Marty:

You have 90SA and you say you lose more SA offline then online yet want to limit SA build up offline to levels that mean nothing at all and would force everyone to have to grind with muppets. Makes no sense at all as surely then anyone that builds SA offline where you say its harder will be capable of racing to that level if not higher then those that get their ratings in mp only.

What makes no sense is an online only rating being tied to offline races. Completely useless offline, yet you lose it if AI rams you. You are already forced to grind against muppets, but allowing said muppets to grind high SA just to ♥♥♥♥ on high level SA lobbies is pretty dumb. This whole problem is also increased thanks to the fact of the terrible 90's lobby system and lack of players.

[Protonv5]

Publicado originalmente por MakeMeLaugh:

Publicado originalmente por racdavies:

Did you slow down though and were there cones for you to go round.

First Monza chicane. We are all on the main straight full throttle, right before braking zone guy turns into my car and I instantly go into a spin. I was a passenger, nothing I could have done, I ended up at the exit of the chicane, in the grass at the right side of the track going into curva grande. Instanly got a penalty once I hit the wall there.

Publicado originalmente por Marty:

You have 90SA and you say you lose more SA offline then online yet want to limit SA build up offline to levels that mean nothing at all and would force everyone to have to grind with muppets. Makes no sense at all as surely then anyone that builds SA offline where you say its harder will be capable of racing to that level if not higher then those that get their ratings in mp only.

What makes no sense is an online only rating being tied to offline races. Completely useless offline, yet you lose it if AI rams you. You are already forced to grind against muppets, but allowing said muppets to grind high SA just to ♥♥♥♥ on high level SA lobbies is pretty dumb. This whole problem is also increased thanks to the fact of the terrible 90's lobby system and lack of players.

Agreed.
Wait. Am I allowed to agree here? Will I make someone angry again?

[Kelset]

It would just suffice to make it so the system checks the speed of the cars, breaking point and impact place of the cars. If a car impacts on another car in trajectory from out of the trajectory and higher let's say cornering speed and in the rear half of the car ahead it would be easy to define who gets the penalty. Plus AI offline so far is a disaster, they're on rails, they don't avoid obstacles, they get huge crash bouncing off walls and hitting you and keep going like nothing happened with no damage visible (just happened to me today in Zolder on the straight right before the Kleine Chicane).
And btw proper driving trajectories and speed and breaking points checks are already in place and the system checks them to award ratings, so why don't use this data for accidents as well?

[Marty]

Publicado originalmente por undefeatable:

Thanks for answers but many miss the point:
Sure the rating system is basically usefull and in normal race situations it is ok to do an equal penalty to get safety and clean racing over winning but KUNOS could from a software-technical point of view do a simple improvement of the system to cover such situations to

1.) Give massive penalties for crash kids => higher chance to get rid of them
2.) Less Demotivation of fair drivers by such crash kids

Would there be any disadvantage ?

The thing is the system will already rate these crash kids poorly. It also is intended for people to use restricted servers to then avoid the people it has rated as poor to race.

The end result would not change much and if people choose to use servers letting everyone in including those it has identified as being bad to race, no matter how the ratings are gathered it will make no difference unless people use stricter entry servers.

The reason it allows you to get a rating with AI which is currently a bit harder to get very high ratings means people can avoid these wreckers in open or low rated servers.

Publicado originalmente por MakeMeLaugh:

What makes no sense is an online only rating being tied to offline races. Completely useless offline, yet you lose it if AI rams you. You are already forced to grind against muppets, but allowing said muppets to grind high SA just to ♥♥♥♥ on high level SA lobbies is pretty dumb. This whole problem is also increased thanks to the fact of the terrible 90's lobby system and lack of players.

But if you say your losing rating in SP clearly its not going to help people easily grind up a rating to then join a high SA server just to wreck you.

Thats clearly not what I have seen in high rating servers and do you honestly think wreckers are going to grind for ages just to have a bit of fun in one server per month or week.

The wreckers have their way because the servers open to them are the ones many join and not avoid as they should. There is no incentive for these guys to grind or even try and drive clean when they can always join servers with 10 to 12 people to wreck.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Publicado originalmente por Marty:

But if you say your losing rating in SP clearly its not going to help people easily grind up a rating to then join a high SA server just to wreck you.

Thats clearly not what I have seen in high rating servers and do you honestly think wreckers are going to grind for ages just to have a bit of fun in one server per month or week.

The wreckers have their way because the servers open to them are the ones many join and not avoid as they should. There is no incentive for these guys to grind or even try and drive clean when they can always join servers with 10 to 12 people to wreck.

Look, when people grind SA with AI that means playing just for the sake of farming SA. That means simply just going side by side, no actual racing happening, it's just farming, like a MMORPG. Poor design right there.

Another thing is actually racing AI, hard racing, sometimes minor contacts happen, sometimes AI rams you but you can keep racing since it's not too bad. But wait, oh you lost SA rating because ♥♥♥♥ you that's why. How to ruin your MP ratings without playing MP, a guide by Kunos.

And people wrecking you isn't only trolls, sometimes it's people that just play offline, end up with a lot of SA, but have no experience in MP, ruining races because they don't know how to act against real people. By limiting how much SA you can get offline, you make sure everyone for example in a 30+ SA lobby at least have multiplayer experience. Higher than 50 and everyone at least had to get those 20 points in MP only, and so on.

[FROSTY]

lol if people actually use a sim game to race n not ram u off the track even in straight line we would call it racing. but sadly the rating system is great keeps the people with passion for racing close n leaves the grubs on the curb

[Saxohare]

The only way to keep your safety rating is to stay offline and do low difficulty single player racing.
At least split the point system in a separated online and offline rating,
now you farm rating offline and loose it online, and it is the perfect way for wreckers to get access to high rated online races,
It will be harder to get a good rating a first, but perhaps it keeps you save if you get a higher rating, now everyone can get a high rating, do a few offline races and you are free to ruin high rank races.

[Marty]

Publicado originalmente por Saxohare:

The only way to keep your safety rating is to stay offline and do low difficulty single player racing.
At least split the point system in a separated online and offline rating,
now you farm rating offline and loose it online, and it is the perfect way for wreckers to get access to high rated online races,
It will be harder to get a good rating a first, but perhaps it keeps you save if you get a higher rating, now everyone can get a high rating, do a few offline races and you are free to ruin high rank races.

I only use reasonable high SA servers and have never came across a wrecker in there and I have no issue keeping a 90+ SA not racing AI at all.

So that means what you said is obviously not true, if you use low rating or unrated servers and encounter wreckers well thats because their rating allows this and when I tried unrated and low rating servers there were wreckers in every session. Either on purpose or due to incompetence doesnt matter but they wreck any decent races but the ratings if used properly avoid them entirely.

There is no need to farm SA and your hypothetical theory of people farming against low rated AI to then just wreck one random High SA server so SA75+ is clearly not happening. There is no reason to seperate the ratings as someone that can race clean with AI can also do this in MP.

Also most complain its too har to maintain SA with AI so surely this farming is pointless. It would take so long that once you get a decent rating and join a high SA server the fun theyd get wrecking for a while wont be enough to spend a many hours racing clean with AI. Your giving wreckers way more credit then they deserve.

[Snoop-AnthonyL]

Still not sure why you get a penalty if someone rear ends you...when it entirely NOT your fault. Same as in real life..if you rear end someone its YOUR fault!

[Marty]

Publicado originalmente por Snoop-AnthonyL:

Still not sure why you get a penalty if someone rear ends you...when it entirely NOT your fault. Same as in real life..if you rear end someone its YOUR fault!

Because its not possible to assign blame fairly and consistantly in collisions and the end results even if it was possible would be negligable in end ratings, the ratings are a statistical approach and everyone gets contacts from everyone.

Those that cause more contacts will have much more then those that rarely do, you also need to be able to race in control and close to others to gain rating. If you use the ratings restrictions you will not have to race those that are wreckers or incompetant.

Accidents still happen as always in racing but competant racers rarely have contacts and can race close to others without issues. These guys get higher ratings and those that cant get lower ones, its really a fairly simple system but most seem to not understand this. If your rating is very low its not just because others are hitting you but clearly you must be causing lots of contact and generally unable to race clean in traffic.

If your racing in open servers with wreckers then best to avoid these or just ignore the ratings completly if you chose not to use them for their actual purpose of getting cleaner racing.

[maelstrom_19]

Publicado originalmente por Snoop-AnthonyL:

Still not sure why you get a penalty if someone rear ends you...when it entirely NOT your fault. Same as in real life..if you rear end someone its YOUR fault!

So if you were to deliberately change your line and brake unexpectedly in front of someone who's trying to overtake you (like a wrecker would) and they hit you, it's still their fault?

[Aniki]

"Iracing will ban any offenders" lol

[Acaerus]

Half of this game is too primitive and unfair...

[JMG]

2024 and still the same. Unfair SA rating and still no way to report dirty players.
I just had a race and I was very clean and safe as always, until two players crash in front of me. I ended up softly hitting one of them cause I couldn't even had time to react.
It was just a light touch with almost no damage to both of our cars.
It happens.
After a few seconds, the same car hit me at 230+ kph in the back while I was braking for a chicane. He then called me clown and insulted me in the chat.
I went from 89 to 84 SA 🤡
You simply can't run a multiplayer game without a report system.