Nicki Thiim (GT3 driver) driving ACC (again)

[scoobysi]

Last time I saw Nicki drive ACC he was quite critical, in particular of the kerbs. I haven’t watched it all yet but he seems very impressed with ACC now, in particular the Chassis flex.

https://youtu.be/_07VHa0y1nI

[scoobysi]

There’s clearly something different about ACC in Nicki’s mind that makes it closer to the way ‘he’ races.

There’s always going to be stuff done in a SIM that can’t or won’t be done in real life, partly due to lack of danger, financial cost or it’s still just a SIM.

For me an exploit is some weird setup value, corner cut, network exploit or something like that.

I tend not to race multiple SIMs, partly because I think you do get conditioned to one which can give unfair bias against others. I do tend to look for the positives though, if I don’t like something or a company I tend not to buy it again e.g PC2.

[Mr Deap]

Shadowfrost の投稿を引用：

I think what the above guy is mentioning about the brake flick is what pros do and not Nicki thiim, as many sims have had or still have that exploit.

He is doing it, but can't keep up. Nicki thiim has long experience of racing simulator. If you insert a driver who hardly play any affordable sim, he will struggle greatly to even be at a competitive pace.

[MakeMeLaugh]

People arguing with master weeb Deap, lmao.

[Shadowfrost]

scoobysi の投稿を引用：

There’s clearly something different about ACC in Nicki’s mind that makes it closer to the way ‘he’ races.

There’s always going to be stuff done in a SIM that can’t or won’t be done in real life, partly due to lack of danger, financial cost or it’s still just a SIM.

For me an exploit is some weird setup value, corner cut, network exploit or something like that.

I tend not to race multiple SIMs, partly because I think you do get conditioned to one which can give unfair bias against others. I do tend to look for the positives though, if I don’t like something or a company I tend not to buy it again e.g PC2.

I tend to race multiple SIMs because they all generally do something better. Iracing vs ACC is the easiest comparison. What Iracing does right is relatively (I say relatively, ACC is very close) unmatched, but they don't do enough things right for it to be wholly better than ACC. Like when Iracing gets something right, it may be a 9 in terms of how close it is. But it has too many major issues that bring the overall simulation down some in areas. Where as ACC does everything very well, but not exactly a 9 or 10 for most areas. So say ACC is 8s across the board, an Iracing is a 9 every so often, but Iracing has certain aspects of the simulation that are easily 5s or 6s that hurt it.

An exploit for me is certain things that are very far off the path of what you would reasonably done, and are only done for the sake of unrealistic time gain.
Iracing has a huge issue with setup exploits, minimum pressure, max camber, softest ARBs, disconnect rear ARB, extreme rake, either no or max dampening across the board or similar, or etc for GTE cars. And their GT3 cars follow very similar stances which is very wrong.

Iracing is a good sim when its within the window, but if your going to go fast you will go outside of that window in setup and as a result of setup, driving style due to a awfully unrealistic setup.
And those above mentioned issues is likely why Nikki feels the way he does, its not that ACC is leaps and bounds ahead in simulation. Its that they've done enough closing of loopholes and exploits that driving fast is relatively close to how it should be. Or at least closer than what he is used to when you take in many factors.

I will say though, for fixed series on the new tire model (fixed being non-adjustable setups) the driving styles in Iracing are pretty proper. But Nikki doesn't race fixed (or at least not often).
And this is coming from someone who was able to race against Nikki in Iracing before and have comparable pace, so I do know a good bit about the simulator.

[scoobysi]

I think you’re giving far too little credit to ACC and the work that Kunos have done on physics, aero, tyres, chassis etc. to suggest that the main reason it feels closer to real racing is down to closing of a few setup exploits. I suspect ACC is much more advanced in GT3 simulation but then it is new and with a much narrower focus.

[Shadowfrost]

scoobysi の投稿を引用：

I think you’re giving far too little credit to ACC and the work that Kunos have done on physics, aero, tyres, chassis etc. to suggest that the main reason it feels closer to real racing is down to closing of a few setup exploits. I suspect ACC is much more advanced in GT3 simulation but then it is new and with a much narrower focus.

I mean that may be from my error of writing. But what I mean is, ACC and Iracing are very similar in terms of quality of simulation now. The whole 5,6,8 and 9s thing. But I think the reason ACC stands out is the loophole/exploit closing. Not because it is massively better in simulator, is it better in some regards, yes but not hugely. The loophole closing should be praised as many of the setup issues I listed have been known for quite a while and desperately need to be fixed. I don't think the simulation levels are all two different between Iracing and ACC. Yes ACC is more focused on GT3 but the care and attention they both put into their cars are quite similar IMO.

[scoobysi]

Yep, I think our opinions differ, I’m glad you enjoy both. I did think about joining iRacing before Xmas but when the Competition Server changes dropped with v1.2 the scheduled racing was a big improvement. Hopefully it will get better still.

[Npastore]

Mr Deap の投稿を引用：

He's 4 sec off pace of the alien. Yep, good simulation value.

Real pro race driver can't teach you how to drive sim racing.

Yes and the you put these "aliens" on real cars and they are off the pace, so?
What a nosense comment

[Mr Deap]

Npastore の投稿を引用：

Mr Deap の投稿を引用：

He's 4 sec off pace of the alien. Yep, good simulation value.

Real pro race driver can't teach you how to drive sim racing.

Yes and the you put these "aliens" on real cars and they are off the pace, so?
What a nosense comment

I'm not digging what you are pointing out. Nonsense of what? I can't read mind.

rant...

Why peeps push novice sim driver who are 3~sec too slow in online race to learn from real driver. Data show that real race driver are 4+sec off pace.

isn't it logical to push new sim driver learning from desktop chair warrior?

[FerSantander]

AC was known for its artificial difficulty when driving, being much harder than in real life, almost synthetic, as if you were fighting the sim rather than enjoying the driving, That is not realistic, but an attempt to it like many other sims in the market have done in its own way as well.

ACC has inherited something of that terribly outdated way of thinking about simulation to a lesser extent, but have improved and evolved, thankfully, a lot in that sense, being much easier regardless how boring, synthetic and soulless these GT3 cars are actually.

I think he's four seconds off the pace, first because driving these cars in real life is way easier than in the game, and second because the setup exploits that plague this game; well, almost every racing game where you can tune your cars, let's be honest.

[rob_every05]

The issue is that one driver in a sim is quick than a driver in a real car.

the issue that plagues sims are that tehre are common cheats that good sim drivers know, these things are not easy to do in real life,

Some of them are fair enough but mst of them are garbage, plus in a real car you have all sorts of things you ahve to deal with such as driver fatigue, heat, g force.

None of this is in sims, so give the guy a break for a long time he was involved in the sim community, added to it, and gained fans.

[underd0g]

So what you guys are saying my 4+ seconds off the pace of the aliens is due to them using exploits and cheats in their setups?

[EF_Neo1st]

LeoHi の投稿を引用：

If you follow enough simracing forums, you'll know that Mr Deap has a whole lot to say about simracing all the time, but hardly ever anything makes any slightest bit of sense...

Check the Brands Hatch quali on the stream for example. Nicki was 1.371 seconds off the pole sitter. And that lobby had some of the crazy fast guys in ACC in it, including P.Simard who has even set some world record times in the game during the early access period atleast. Track in general didn't feel super grippy in these lobbies (due to weather coditions), so simply comparing laptimes with some others you see on the internet is absolutely pointless.

And you got to keep in mind that Nicki did this with minimal to non-existant practise and a preset setup without full optimization of fuel, tyre pressures and all that jazz. That's mighty impressive considering he basically just jumped in to have fun and drove almost only using his real life experience and knowledge on how the Aston needs to be driven. With more practise in ACC and finetuning the setups, there's no doubt he could be mighty fast.

Saying his opinion doesn't matter is just absurd. Feedback from guys like Nicki who do a lot of both real-life and simracing is simply the best feedback Kunos can ever wish for.

"I've been waiting for this day, that I can drive a race car online, like I would drive a race car in real life" - that quote from him is the highest praise a sim can ever get.

Tbf 1:24.8 at Brands is not 1s or 2s off but 3s (or a bit more) than the best times but near 2s off from what is possible at race starting with some 62L and considering it was quali, it was average pace but not even really fast I would say (much less alien like).

Tho yes it may also have to do with FFB (and imo not only there are no g forces but ACC weight transfer snd wheel locking feeling are very weak to non-existant in comparison to AMS2 and rF2 imho).

On default safe, even with 62L, I could get into 23s and I am no alien.

[EF_Neo1st]

underd0g の投稿を引用：

So what you guys are saying my 4+ seconds off the pace of the aliens is due to them using exploits and cheats in their setups?

Defaults can be 1s off the pace (or around it more or less depending more on driving style and skill to fit it) so no, whoever says otherwise just dont believe they can improve themselves.

[underd0g]

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：

Defaults can be 1s off the pace (or around it more or less depending more on driving style and skill to fit it) so no, whoever says otherwise just dont believe they can improve themselves.

That's what I thought.