Why are identical cars always faster than mine?

[IDONTLIKECHEATS]

I don't understand how the straight line speed of other players in the same car is so much faster than mine, even if i get more speed out the corner and pull away they catch up and slide by like GTAV catchup without even trying to use my slip stream. I even tried using a utubers preset car setup for the specific track and car, no better. Even these kids that try using u as a crash barrier and cant drive at all go zoomy zoom on striaghts.
What is the secret.
Im using a wheel and peddles.

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by GIGACHAD:

no matter what you say, you didnt do anything to prove me wrong about the fact that Setup is a huge part of this game. without a good setup you will always be slower than someone with the same skill experience using a better setup. so imo its around 1 to 7% depending on the track lenght. even only 1% is still huge because it stack up each laps, it might not be huge for 1 lap time but since this game average online race time is 20 minutes it stackup quickly

I proven you wrong about the "huge difference" you was considering on your time with and without setup changes.
I proven you wrog about the "huge difference" you was considering about default setups and the best times with setup changes.

Setup changes do change your performance, yes, but if it changes more than 1.5% or 2% and if you are still way off the "2% from the best times" it is not setup fault, even because "most" (some cars the default setup may be bad so I am considering this) . . most setups are that competitive (that aliens can reach within 1% to 2% from the best possible times with either default safe or default aggressive setups).
You "not wanting to believe it" dont make you correct . . .

You always say setups don't make much difference because "some" aliens can still do amazing times in hotlap with cold conditions. You seem to forget that is probably less than 0.5% of the player base. If setups don't make a huge difference why do aliens spend days/weeks on setups?

Maybe for a very small % a setup wont make much difference but for those that struggle with pace a few clicks on the wing/height can be the difference between staying on track. Your post average times with default setups. Maybe a setup would help you find those extra tenths or seconds. How would you know if you always run default?

https://youtu.be/kTIbo7z4460

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I proven you wrong about the "huge difference" you was considering on your time with and without setup changes.
I proven you wrog about the "huge difference" you was considering about default setups and the best times with setup changes.

Setup changes do change your performance, yes, but if it changes more than 1.5% or 2% and if you are still way off the "2% from the best times" it is not setup fault, even because "most" (some cars the default setup may be bad so I am considering this) . . most setups are that competitive (that aliens can reach within 1% to 2% from the best possible times with either default safe or default aggressive setups).
You "not wanting to believe it" dont make you correct . . .

You always say setups don't make much difference because "some" aliens can still do amazing times in hotlap with cold conditions. You seem to forget that is probably less than 0.5% of the player base. If setups don't make a huge difference why do aliens spend days/weeks on setups?

Maybe for a very small % a setup wont make much difference but for those that struggle with pace a few clicks on the wing/height can be the difference between staying on track. Your post average times with default setups. Maybe a setup would help you find those extra tenths or seconds. How would you know if you always run default?

https://youtu.be/kTIbo7z4460

Thing is, if you are too slow you are better off learning with the car instead of tweaking setup.

Wing changes (to lower wing), just mean this driver turn exit is usually poor and the driver should learn how to exit the turn better (changing his line, angle of attack or even speed through the turn)

Wing changes (to higher wing), just mean this driver can not control the car properly through the turn and should learn better line, angle of attack, speed through the turn (probably also better braking point) and "brake and throttle" modulation (speed through turn problem is also usually a "trailbraking problem" too).

Lower BB and ABS if you have problem pivoting into the turns on the braking zone, but car will be less stable and driver more prone to "losing control" therefore losing pace, also therer are other cars that pivot more too.

Lower TC if they struggle pivoting the car on turn exit, but again they will wear more their tyres and could do better without burnig tyres in 2 or 3 laps if they just improved their line, angle of attack and speed through the turn.

They will still struggle with pace, but now with a better pace,
problem of doing this is . . . player improved with setup changes (lets say, from 1s to 2s to reach average lap times) and now have no idea of how or where to improve and keep trying to find magic within the setup.

I say setups dont make so much of a difference because they dont and when I say "learn with the default setups instead of trying to find magic with setup tweaks" it is because that is how I am improving, from like as example 1:40 at Misano to 1:34 with default setup, also, there are different cars with different traits that probably (probably, not certainly) would fit the "setup change" that player want to do so "changing car instead of changing setup" could also work.

Aliens spend days/weeks on setups to try and find that extra 0.5s, 1s maybe (that still within 0.5% to 1% as I mentioned) and they dont just go and pick a "fast youtube setup" or "paid setup" because these would just work as baseline for what they want (for their driving style and skills) and that is why they take days or weeks tweaking, but they also have driving skills and understanding to get as much as possible out of the defaults to then start working from there to get even higher limits, they are not trying to be alien fast or average fast with setups, they already are alien fast with the defaults and setup changes are done to find that little bit more to gain advantage over other aliens according to their driving style, car and situation (track and weather condition, etc).

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

You always say setups don't make much difference because "some" aliens can still do amazing times in hotlap with cold conditions. You seem to forget that is probably less than 0.5% of the player base. If setups don't make a huge difference why do aliens spend days/weeks on setups?

Maybe for a very small % a setup wont make much difference but for those that struggle with pace a few clicks on the wing/height can be the difference between staying on track. Your post average times with default setups. Maybe a setup would help you find those extra tenths or seconds. How would you know if you always run default?

https://youtu.be/kTIbo7z4460

Thing is, if you are too slow you are better off learning with the car instead of tweaking setup.

Wing changes (to lower wing), just mean this driver turn exit is usually poor and the driver should learn how to exit the turn better (changing his line, angle of attack or even speed through the turn)

Wing changes (to higher wing), just mean this driver can not control the car properly through the turn and should learn better line, angle of attack, speed through the turn (probably also better braking point) and "brake and throttle" modulation (speed through turn problem is also usually a "trailbraking problem" too).

Lower BB and ABS if you have problem pivoting into the turns on the braking zone, but car will be less stable and driver more prone to "losing control" therefore losing pace, also therer are other cars that pivot more too.

Lower TC if they struggle pivoting the car on turn exit, but again they will wear more their tyres and could do better without burnig tyres in 2 or 3 laps if they just improved their line, angle of attack and speed through the turn.

They will still struggle with pace, but now with a better pace,
problem of doing this is . . . player improved with setup changes (lets say, from 1s to 2s to reach average lap times) and now have no idea of how or where to improve and keep trying to find magic within the setup.

I say setups dont make so much of a difference because they dont and when I say "learn with the default setups instead of trying to find magic with setup tweaks" it is because that is how I am improving, from like as example 1:40 at Misano to 1:34 with default setup, also, there are different cars with different traits that probably (probably, not certainly) would fit the "setup change" that player want to do so "changing car instead of changing setup" could also work.

Aliens spend days/weeks on setups to try and find that extra 0.5s, 1s maybe (that still within 0.5% to 1% as I mentioned) and they dont just go and pick a "fast youtube setup" or "paid setup" because these would just work as baseline for what they want (for their driving style and skills) and that is why they take days or weeks tweaking, but they also have driving skills and understanding to get as much as possible out of the defaults to then start working from there to get even higher limits, they are not trying to be alien fast or average fast with setups, they already are alien fast with the defaults and setup changes are done to find that little bit more to gain advantage over other aliens according to their driving style, car and situation (track and weather condition, etc).

If someone is struggling to do a 2.25 at Spa, then yes its not all setup. There is still a lot to learn but someone doing a 2.18 still has a lot to learn (compared to aliens) The problem is 99% of players will never get that good anyway. To say all the time to people you or aliens can do X times with default has no bearing on them.

When the game first came out and before I watched Aris explain about setups and the aero balance I was slow at ACC (1.50 at Monza) After some time doing small adjustments to how I wanted the car to behave I could do 1.48s most laps and my best is a 1.47.5. I don't dive deep into setups as I'm no engineer but I tweak the aero balance to my liking after a few laps as I know it will make me quicker (for my driving style) If a car doesn't suit someones style they will often over/under drive just to try and let the car do what it wants to do. A setup can indeed change that no matter how far off the pace you are (forget aliens) If someone finds 3-4 seconds with a setup it obviously suits there driving style more, doesn't matter if aliens can still go 8 seconds quicker. That individual has improved due to the car doing what they want/expect more.

Jardier went 2 seconds quicker with a setup compared to default at the Glen. He is a alien but still found default to be terrible. Most probably couldn't drive that setup as fast a Jardier but doesn't take away from the fact one of the quickest guys was 2 seconds slower with default.

If your improving with default then that's good, maybe some need a little help just to stay on track. I'm not saying a setup will make someone a alien but saying the default are good for everyone isn't true. Nothing beats doing laps to improve times and changing setups every 5 laps is a bad idea. Doing laps and changing one thing at a time (starting with aero balance IMO) can help someone find pace and understand what affect its having. If someone spends X amount of laps to understand the car better and has a little understanding of small changes they can make to improve there own lap times through setups it will help.

If someone is driving a bad setup (default for some) they will hit a wall and no matter how many laps they do they wont improve. Some might even start going slower due to pushing the car and the setup not living with it. There is no magic setup for everyone but small changes can and do make a big difference for some people.

Laps and more laps is key, saying default is fine for everyone is just wrong though. Some haven't been updated along side all the physics updates over the life of the game.

[EF_Neo1st]

I just would like to add that tyre pressure at ACC to have it at the "magical values" can indeed deliver 1s to 2s faster depending on track and weather condition (depending even more if weather is too hot or too cold ... or rain) and I admit that, sum it with extra 1s (to 2s maybe, up to 2%) with setup adjustments and it can become from 2s to 4s, depending on track and weather conditions.

Also I had mentioned at least here:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Setup changes do change your performance, yes, but if it changes more than 1.5% or 2% and if you are still way off the "2% from the best times" it is not setup fault, even because "most" (some cars the default setup may be bad so I am considering this) . . most setups are that competitive (that aliens can reach within 1% to 2% from the best possible times with either default safe or default aggressive setups).
You "not wanting to believe it" dont make you correct . . .

That 1% to 2% off from the best times is like a threshold, so from there setup changes are "appliable" (dont know if the word exist) even for aliens and 2s at watkins is some 2% indeed

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I just would like to add that tyre pressure at ACC to have it at the "magical values" can indeed deliver 1s to 2s faster depending on track and weather condition (depending even more if weather is too hot or too cold ... or rain) and I admit that, sum it with extra 1s (to 2s maybe, up to 2%) with setup adjustments and it can become from 2s to 4s, depending on track and weather conditions.

Also I had mentioned at least here:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Setup changes do change your performance, yes, but if it changes more than 1.5% or 2% and if you are still way off the "2% from the best times" it is not setup fault, even because "most" (some cars the default setup may be bad so I am considering this) . . most setups are that competitive (that aliens can reach within 1% to 2% from the best possible times with either default safe or default aggressive setups).
You "not wanting to believe it" dont make you correct . . .

That 1% to 2% off from the best times is like a threshold, so from there setup changes are "appliable" (dont know if the word exist) even for aliens and 2s at watkins is some 2% indeed

But yet again you base your argument on what aliens can do! Heck I bet most aliens can get a GT4 close to some in a GT3 but that doesn't mean anything to the average player.

If someone is 10 seconds off the pace and crashing every lap they need more practice. If they can find a setup that allows them to attack kerbs how they want or stop the rear spinning out every corner they could find 5 seconds driving the same. That could be small adjustments in the setup but suddenly the car is more controllable for them. A setup wont find the other 5 seconds but having a setup that allows them to drive how they want will make understanding how to go quicker easier.

A car that is unpredictable is just that. Someone with a lower skill level will never know how to improve if they are crashing every other corner. Having a more stable setup for there driving style makes them more consistent. Only then will you begin to understand and more importantly enjoy putting in hundreds of laps to improve your driving.

There are probably 95%+ of the players across all sims that are off the top times! Your basically saying anyone who is below alien level just needs to stay with default setups and improve there driving?? Jardier is 2 seconds off a setup on a small track, at Spa that difference could be 3-4 seconds.

Someone with lower skill will probably get more out of a good setup (as long as they have a basic understanding of how to drive) than aliens could simply because most could drive any setup quicker than most of us ever will.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I just would like to add that tyre pressure at ACC to have it at the "magical values" can indeed deliver 1s to 2s faster depending on track and weather condition (depending even more if weather is too hot or too cold ... or rain) and I admit that, sum it with extra 1s (to 2s maybe, up to 2%) with setup adjustments and it can become from 2s to 4s, depending on track and weather conditions.

Also I had mentioned at least here:

That 1% to 2% off from the best times is like a threshold, so from there setup changes are "appliable" (dont know if the word exist) even for aliens and 2s at watkins is some 2% indeed

But yet again you base your argument on what aliens can do! Heck I bet most aliens can get a GT4 close to some in a GT3 but that doesn't mean anything to the average player.

If someone is 10 seconds off the pace and crashing every lap they need more practice. If they can find a setup that allows them to attack kerbs how they want or stop the rear spinning out every corner they could find 5 seconds driving the same. That could be small adjustments in the setup but suddenly the car is more controllable for them. A setup wont find the other 5 seconds but having a setup that allows them to drive how they want will make understanding how to go quicker easier.

A car that is unpredictable is just that. Someone with a lower skill level will never know how to improve if they are crashing every other corner. Having a more stable setup for there driving style makes them more consistent. Only then will you begin to understand and more importantly enjoy putting in hundreds of laps to improve your driving.

There are probably 95%+ of the players across all sims that are off the top times! Your basically saying anyone who is below alien level just needs to stay with default setups and improve there driving?? Jardier is 2 seconds off a setup on a small track, at Spa that difference could be 3-4 seconds.

Someone with lower skill will probably get more out of a good setup (as long as they have a basic understanding of how to drive) than aliens could simply because most could drive any setup quicker than most of us ever will.

1:40 track 1% mean 1s, 2% is 2s
Spa is 2:15 so 1% mean 1.35s, 2% is 2.7s (almost 3s).

Someone with lower skill will not want lower TC, ABS, BB or wing (or even lower ride height due to kerbs) to have it more stable and rising these settings will make the lap times worst, not better (but yes, if the player was crashing everywhere maybe it help, but the consistent times will be slower than what is possible with either default safe or aggressive.

If they find a setup that allow then to drive "not as correct as they should" imho it will only hold their driving skills evolution back as they will tend to rely more on the setup adjustments than at adapting their driving by improving their skills (reason why I agree with it ever since I was shown how competitive defaults can be and accepted it was me who would have to change and improve, not the car. What I say is what I use and apply to this day and am still improving).
I was the 1:33 at Brands, 1:54 at Monza, 1:40 at Misano when I started and barely could hold myself inside the track, was some 2 months at it and nothing of getting beyond this threshold, once I accepted it was me who needed to change and started practicing trailbraking, pedals modulation and to pay attention at my speeds, line and braking points, in 2 weeks I was doing 1:28 at Brands, 1:52 at Monza and 1:37 at Misano, in more some months I was going even faster and improving, 30min per day, taking my time, races just to check how I was doing and to try to improve racecraft.

But, again, if someone want a safer setup to stay on the track or a more unsafe setup to be faster, they may achieve "certain results" faster, but then after tweaking their setups they will still be held by the same thing, skill and understanding that only comes through practice accepting these changes are needed.

[FUS RO DAH]

Conclusion : Setup does matter
just want to add that Im not a noob ive 1000s of hours of racing online and about 150 hours in ACC i know its not alot on ACC but im not a noob. my best time is 2.22 at spa (with the lexus, i dont drive the Meta cars for morale reasons) and i know its not that good but the only way i was able to get that time is with a ''good'' setup, so if you give me a Meta/alien setup i have no doubt i could probably do 2:20 but these setup are not free and thats the issue i have with this game(also setup are poorly explained in the game and VERY confusing), i would love a Default only online mode or a league with all the same car with default/agressive only. Also im not saying setup is all it takes but it does make a big difference.
another exemple i do 1.51 at monza (with the Mercedes iirc) but thats only after finding a setup online because my best time befor custom setup was 1.54 with the safe + custom TC-ABS(for some reason agressive doesnt work for me)
Aliens are the best exemple of how important setup are, they spend 100s of hours tuning their setups..... why would they do that if it doesnt matter ? lol cmon

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by GIGACHAD:

Conclusion : Setup does matter
just want to add that Im not a noob ive 1000s of hours of racing online and about 150 hours in ACC i know its not alot on ACC but im not a noob. my best time is 2.22 at spa (with the lexus, i dont drive the Meta cars for morale reasons) and i know its not that good but the only way i was able to get that time is with a ''good'' setup, so if you give me a Meta/alien setup i have no doubt i could probably do 2:20 but these setup are not free and thats the issue i have with this game(also setup are poorly explained in the game and VERY confusing), i would love a Default only online mode or a league with all the same car with default/agressive only. Also im not saying setup is all it takes but it does make a big difference.
another exemple i do 1.51 at monza but thats only after finding a setup online because my best time befor custom setup was 1.54 with the safe + custom TC-ABS(for some reason agressive doesnt work for me)
Aliens are the best exemple of how important setup are, they spend 100s of hours tuning their setups..... why would they do that if it doesnt matter ? lol cmon

I did not say it dont matter, I did say it is very possible to be well competitive (up to 1% to 2% off from the best times, depending on skills and driving style and how well you know the track) and I also said "I think" you learn better without relying on setup to be faster "now".

Tho I recommend doing 5 consecutive laps at your best pace without going offtrack but pushing hard then adjusting your tyres psi to be the magical 27.5psi when you are racing, that in itself already make you 1% (or a bit more) faster (a lot more depending on weather and track temp if it is too cold or too hot . . or rain/heavy rain).
Aside from that, 1% to 2% I can see how it helps, more than 1% setup (aside from tyres pressure) may be helping but that because you stil have a lot to learn.

"I think" you learn better without it because if the setup helps you to stay inside the track or help you deal with certain turns you was not dealling good with, your setup improved it for you but you did not learn anything about "how to deal with it with your understanding and skills" (but you learned on how to improve it with setup).
"I think", tho you do what "you think" is right for you or what you want for now, yes, setup matter (and I never said it dont, I just said it is not "some magical tool that wil make you very fast or alien" and may make the 1% to 2% difference (or maybe more) if you are off the alien territory (off the 2% of faster).

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by GIGACHAD:

Conclusion : Setup does matter
just want to add that Im not a noob ive 1000s of hours of racing online and about 150 hours in ACC i know its not alot on ACC but im not a noob. my best time is 2.22 at spa (with the lexus, i dont drive the Meta cars for morale reasons) and i know its not that good but the only way i was able to get that time is with a ''good'' setup, so if you give me a Meta/alien setup i have no doubt i could probably do 2:20 but these setup are not free and thats the issue i have with this game(also setup are poorly explained in the game and VERY confusing), i would love a Default only online mode or a league with all the same car with default/agressive only. Also im not saying setup is all it takes but it does make a big difference.
another exemple i do 1.51 at monza but thats only after finding a setup online because my best time befor custom setup was 1.54 with the safe + custom TC-ABS(for some reason agressive doesnt work for me)
Aliens are the best exemple of how important setup are, they spend 100s of hours tuning their setups..... why would they do that if it doesnt matter ? lol cmon

I did not say it dont matter, I did say it is very possible to be well competitive (up to 1% to 2% off from the best times, depending on skills and driving style and how well you know the track) and I also said "I think" you learn better without relying on setup to be faster "now".

Tho I recommend doing 5 consecutive laps at your best pace without going offtrack but pushing hard then adjusting your tyres psi to be the magical 27.5psi when you are racing, that in itself already make you 1% (or a bit more) faster (a lot more depending on weather and track temp if it is too cold or too hot . . or rain/heavy rain).
Aside from that, 1% to 2% I can see how it helps, more than 1% setup (aside from tyres pressure) may be helping but that because you stil have a lot to learn.

"I think" you learn better without it because if the setup helps you to stay inside the track or help you deal with certain turns you was not dealling good with, your setup improved it for you but you did not learn anything about "how to deal with it with your understanding and skills" (but you learned on how to improve it with setup).
"I think", tho you do what "you think" is right for you or what you want for now, yes, setup matter (and I never said it dont, I just said it is not "some magical tool that wil make you very fast or alien" and may make the 1% to 2% difference (or maybe more) if you are off the alien territory (off the 2% of faster).

Nobody said setups will make you a alien. When a alien is able to go 2 seconds quicker with a custom setup though it proves that setup does indeed matter no matter what your pace is.

You post average times so how come you have never tried to adjust the setup? Even if you only find half a second it can make a difference in a race. Do you really believe everyone has the skill to get within 2 seconds of alien pace with enough laps?

I can't think of a form of motorsport where a driver has ever said I don't mess with the car setup as Ill learn more. There are so many driving styles and there is no single way to drive a car fast. Even different lines through corners are used so as far as I'm concerned your just talking nonsense saying you need to be within 1-2% of alien pace.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I did not say it dont matter, I did say it is very possible to be well competitive (up to 1% to 2% off from the best times, depending on skills and driving style and how well you know the track) and I also said "I think" you learn better without relying on setup to be faster "now".

Tho I recommend doing 5 consecutive laps at your best pace without going offtrack but pushing hard then adjusting your tyres psi to be the magical 27.5psi when you are racing, that in itself already make you 1% (or a bit more) faster (a lot more depending on weather and track temp if it is too cold or too hot . . or rain/heavy rain).
Aside from that, 1% to 2% I can see how it helps, more than 1% setup (aside from tyres pressure) may be helping but that because you stil have a lot to learn.

"I think" you learn better without it because if the setup helps you to stay inside the track or help you deal with certain turns you was not dealling good with, your setup improved it for you but you did not learn anything about "how to deal with it with your understanding and skills" (but you learned on how to improve it with setup).
"I think", tho you do what "you think" is right for you or what you want for now, yes, setup matter (and I never said it dont, I just said it is not "some magical tool that wil make you very fast or alien" and may make the 1% to 2% difference (or maybe more) if you are off the alien territory (off the 2% of faster).

Nobody said setups will make you a alien. When a alien is able to go 2 seconds quicker with a custom setup though it proves that setup does indeed matter no matter what your pace is.

You post average times so how come you have never tried to adjust the setup? Even if you only find half a second it can make a difference in a race. Do you really believe everyone has the skill to get within 2 seconds of alien pace with enough laps?

I can't think of a form of motorsport where a driver has ever said I don't mess with the car setup as Ill learn more. There are so many driving styles and there is no single way to drive a car fast. Even different lines through corners are used so as far as I'm concerned your just talking nonsense saying you need to be within 1-2% of alien pace.

I will quote myself "yet again" as it is what started it all:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I proven you wrong about the "huge difference" you was considering on your time with and without setup changes.
I proven you wrog about the "huge difference" you was considering about default setups and the best times with setup changes.

Setup changes do change your performance, yes, but if it changes more than 1.5% or 2% and if you are still way off the "2% from the best times" it is not setup fault, even because "most" (some cars the default setup may be bad so I am considering this) . . most setups are that competitive (that aliens can reach within 1% to 2% from the best possible times with either default safe or default aggressive setups).
You "not wanting to believe it" dont make you correct . . .

I said setup changes may change somewhing like 0.5% to 1.5% or 2% (to what so far you kind of agree with me).
I just said "most default setups are competitive"and at ACC it is absolutely true, these are competitive even more under the alien territory.

And now I will say, if someone can do it, anyone else can do it too (including you).
Maybe do it require a lot more practice time, dedication and understanding to achieve?
Yes, maybe it do, still achievable. There yes I dont agree with you, I do believe "anyone can do it" if someone can do it, tho, setup is according to driver style too it mean setup is according to driver preference, so it is not every car or car setup that will fit the driver (unless this driver adapt to it, still, requires time and practice and the adaptation process may take a lot of time), still "I think" for the driving learning process it is better to not try to find setup advantages but trying to learn with the car.
If the driver want "instant results", these results can come from setup, but nothing magical and something around 1% to 2% (maybe a bit more depending on driver pace, if it is too slow maybe more than 2% come) but what I also had forgot to mention is the tyres pressure (that can also deliver 1% to 2% by itself depending on conditions) but that after I mentioned . . .

BUT most default setups are outdated now . . . not exactly outdated, cars BoP changed and the physics changed a bit too, resulting in setups requiring even more precision, but what these setups can deliver now is 0.5% off from what these setups could deliver before (and, paying attention to the best times, these best times are sort of around 0.5% off too, sometimes less than 0.5%, sometimes a bit more, even with setup changes to alien skill and driver driving style, so it is not defaults that are now borked and these aliens also took some time to return to their best times or close).

I dont know why I have to explain myself over and over and you guys still take me as if I was saying "dont use setup changes, these are not effective" or "you dont need setup changes", because that is not what I said, I just said you can go without it and still be competitive ... "but, but, someone is not competitive without and now is competitive with"
- Aliens: top times to 2% off from best times - 2:15~2:17.7
- Average fast times: 2% to 4% off from best times (2% from 2:17.7) - 2:17.7 to 2:20.4
- Average times: 4% to 6.1% off from best times (2% from 2:20.4) - 2:20.4 to 2:23.2 << what is usually found online
- Average slow times: 6.1% to 8.2% off from best times (2% from 2:23.2) - 2:23.2 to 2:26.1 <<is also found online, but I see less there than at average times
- Slow times: 8.2% to 10.4% off from best times (2% from 2:26) - 2:26.1 to 2:29
The 2% difference may make a difference, but the setups to be faster are usually less safe too, but if the driver feel like "making the car even more safe" to be able to drive it with consistency, it mean the driver is being slow because of lack of consistency (that could be worked with practice) and making the car more safe to be driven also mean this driver will practice less his steering, throttle and brake inputs (also will not practice the same for braking points, return to throttle points and racing line because different setups may require/allow different inputs, braking points and lines) reason why "I think" it is not the best way to improve (it may be the best way to improve "now" but on the long run "I think" it is the worst strategy to keep improving more, as setups have their limits on what can be delivered by setup alone).

I am not even commited that much (was 30min/day average but this year I am more like 5min/day average and yes, consistency is a thing) but aliens drive hours per day as their average, still improved that far (not that it is anything amazing even with my best times of 1:23.2 at Brands or 1:34.6 at Misano, it is nothing amazing but shows improvement) and still returned to like 0.5% off from my previous best times or closer than that (even with 5min/day average) on the exact same setups, just adjusting tyres pressure in case of need (as I save my setups for the tyres pressure that change per track condition, temperature and weather condition).

TL:DR (not that this will not be long, just "less long")
And . . well, I guess people will still say I am saying setups dont matter, setups are useless and setups are to not be used and I am in a loophole of explaining myself over and over that is pointless.
Use setup if you want, no setup (aside from fixing tyres pressures + setup changes) deliver much more than 2% but can deliver some 4% if you fix setup to your liking and fix tyres pressure.
There are drivers that can be inside alien territory (2% off form best times) with default setups and if there are drivers that can do it, they are people as everyone else, just with more practice and understanding, so if you want to commit to it, it can deliver.

I got tired of repeating over and over and repeating over and over that I am not saying I am against the use of setup (and yes, I dont change more than BB and TC/ABS, being TC and ABS I rarely touch less if for some practice with less TC and less ABS, BB I change more because I got used to how cars behave under braking at AMS2, before I was driving with the default BB and doing about the same, when I returned to ACC I just lowered BB but I just kept improving at AMS2 too, it is not like I took a hiatus from simracing, lowered BB and magically it made me get 1% or 2% faster, being it driver preference).

So, for that reason (I got tired of repeating over and over), I am unsubbing from the topic, have fun, with or without setup changes (but the defaults can deliver, yes they can).

[DC2Dixon]

Not everyone can be as good as Messi.

Not everyone can be as good as Lebron James.

Not everyone can punch like Tyson.

Not everyone can be as fast as Verstappen.

Everyone has a limit to there skill no matter how hard they try. There are those who are born with a natural ability and those who are not. To say everyone can get to within 2% of alien pace with default setups is ridiculous. The top drivers can, but there good no matter the setup.

Nobody is saying people can't improve over time but some will still never get anywhere near alien pace. Maybe someone has been racing sims for 20 years and there reactions are not what they used to be. You and me may post identical times but go about the lap completely different. There is no one way to drive so default wont suit everyone and allow them to get the best out of a car.

[FUS RO DAH]

So im glade we can agree setup does matter but i might have exagerated it a little with the 10% because its probably more around 1-4% i guess but yeah ... i just wish we didnt need a 2 hours educational video to understand how to properly custom Setup in this game and a Default only mode for online racing would be nice too. i used to play Forza a lot back when i had a console and customising setup was much more easy and less complicated. also in forza what i liked is you can tweak your setup while driving the car and immediatly gauge if it helped or not, no need to go back to the pit and that saved a ton of time, thats probably what i hate to most about this game is the time wasted to go to pit to change 1 little thing and having to restart the track all over again and if the thing you changed was for the last corner of the race ..... so much time wasting its painful

[Raven78uk]

I love that its so quiet about fact that usually alien setups use some kind of exploit ( combination of different settings all over car setup ) which doesn't make sense in real life but works in ACC.

[grizta30]

Originally posted by Raven78uk:

I love that its so quiet about fact that usually alien setups use some kind of exploit ( combination of different settings all over car setup ) which doesn't make sense in real life but works in ACC.

The only known exploit is the toe & camber, its not as potent as it was

[sprayder]

all Games hgave cheater hacker moder..... yea is schame for all true gamers