How To takeover and defend safely (novice)

[TFerg20]

I just witness when I watch amateur player, however there was on many time when bad overtaking and defending occurred. The best thing if your beginning ACC, is to figure out the opportune time.

I hope to desire that you improve the occasions your making by returning to the nuts and bolts (basics) of overtaking or defending when in a race.

Instructions to defending

While Defending you need to ensure you don't get over forceful, on the off chance that you do you wind up clearing out the both of you. at the point when somebody is your ally or beginning to go one next to the other (Sometimes you may hear this in F1 Side-By-Side) you see both driver giving an car side door space, about 2.4 meters. This ensures that the pass is protected and you don't wind up offing yourself. In any case, this can be interesting to do depending of the track size.

Illustration of terrible defending

A large number of time I drive in an open worker and the driver in front wind up attempting to impede the driver behind and wipes him/she-self out or even both. This can prompt a contention, however that case the driver in front is off base and cause hazardous driving (unsportsmanlike conduct), in term not after the FIA GT3, GT4 and GTR Rules.

Best to overtaking

At the point when it's safe to overtake is, straightforward. You can overtake a driver in most sense within the driver, yet a few times this is absurd if the drive is acceptable and can peruse your arrangement. Finding an opening, or the freebies, yet the last one isn't as fun.

Illustration of terrible overtaking

Never Dive-blast or cause a collide with acquire a spot, Simple. At some point this isn't avoidable and these are known as Racing Incidents.

Will this assist me with improving?

This will improve you driving abilities AND improve your time as you end up not committing any superfluous errors that can cost you the race. Don't stress on the off chance that you wind up failing to keep a grip on the vehicle, this is simply something that will occur. At the point when I've crash myself without hitting anybody and yes it irritating, yet what more would you be able to do...

Improve and gain from it. watch the replays, take a gander at learning recordings, address individuals you realise that want to make connections and have a great time.

[Easty]

Open lobby's can be a mixed bag when it comes to online racing, League races tend to be championship rounds and reading up on the racing rules for that league should be done prior to racing, you don't want to ruin peoples races that maybe fighting for a championship.
Most will have their leagues name in the servers title so a quick google search should find their web site or they may require the use of Team-speak or discord so you can get info that way.
Most leagues have the same basic rules, The main one being the B pillar rule. If you are making a move on the inside approaching a corner, the front of your car must be up to the cars B pillar (eg: the line between the front and rear door on a four door car or halfway along side any other car type) before the car in front starts to turn into the corner. The car trying to overtake has a better view of the situation so any contact made is their fault if the B pillar rule is not followed ( commonly called dive bombing). If contact is made and the passing car was not up to the B pillar and it gains the place or causes an accident then they must redress and give back the position, regardless of loosing positions to other cars.
Making a mess of an overtake can be quite costly if not done properly.
You just need to remember that you are racing real people not AI and they have paid just as much money or more to be there. Driving like an idiot will only give you a bad name and you will find yourself being booted from servers if you keep it up.
Using programs like CREW CHIEF can greatly help your situational awareness with its spotter and works on most racing titles (not so good with ACC unfortunately ). and keeping an eye on your mirrors is a good habit also.
Its supposed to be fun, if everyone reads the rules, everyone will have fun. The rules apply to everyone , you are not special , no matter what your mum tells you.

[Easty]

With defending your position, as in real life racing, you can only make one defensive move, you can move left or right once to defend your position, once you have moved that's it till you exit the next corner you come to, no weaving all over the place to block the car behind, you can move around if you are trying to break a slipstream but not if they are in a position to overtake you. No changing of racing line when in the braking zone of a corner to block the car behind. Choose your racing line and stick to it.

[Bullet_Sponge]

blocking on corner apex/exit is ok as long as you arent violently swerving left to right to block. Only one movement when blocking in the braking zone. Sometimes its better to give up the corner entry so you can re-overtake after a better exit.
Just because you are clearly faster than the guy in front, it doesnt give you the right to tap them out of the way, you must still overtake safely, if you do make contact and theres a spin, etiquette is to wait for them to go back ahead. All overtakes are started in the previous corner, plan ahead and its more likely to work, divebombing is stupid and WILL cause an accident.
and my biggest annoyance.... STICKING YOUR NOSE UP THE INSIDE IN A CORNER IS NOT BEING ALONGSIDE! Far too many times I have had this happen, it is not a legitimate challenge for a corner and is not 'alongside', all you are doing is sticking your nose into a blind spot and asking the driver in front to turn across it, its gonna take out them, you or both. Be sensible about it, you dont see pro drivers doing this kind of thing for good reason.
And one more thing, if you go off track to hold more speed out of a corner for an overtake, just know that I will never let you rejoin the track unless you have backed off

[TFerg20]

Originally posted by Easty:

Open lobby's can be a mixed bag when it comes to online racing, League races tend to be championship rounds and reading up on the racing rules for that league should be done prior to racing, you don't want to ruin peoples races that maybe fighting for a championship.
Most will have their leagues name in the servers title so a quick google search should find their web site or they may require the use of Team-speak or discord so you can get info that way.
Most leagues have the same basic rules, The main one being the B pillar rule. If you are making a move on the inside approaching a corner, the front of your car must be up to the cars B pillar (eg: the line between the front and rear door on a four door car or halfway along side any other car type) before the car in front starts to turn into the corner. The car trying to overtake has a better view of the situation so any contact made is their fault if the B pillar rule is not followed ( commonly called dive bombing). If contact is made and the passing car was not up to the B pillar and it gains the place or causes an accident then they must redress and give back the position, regardless of loosing positions to other cars.
Making a mess of an overtake can be quite costly if not done properly.
You just need to remember that you are racing real people not AI and they have paid just as much money or more to be there. Driving like an idiot will only give you a bad name and you will find yourself being booted from servers if you keep it up.
Using programs like CREW CHIEF can greatly help your situational awareness with its spotter and works on most racing titles (not so good with ACC unfortunately ). and keeping an eye on your mirrors is a good habit also.
Its supposed to be fun, if everyone reads the rules, everyone will have fun. The rules apply to everyone , you are not special , no matter what your mum tells you.

I agree with you 100%.

[TFerg20]

Originally posted by Bullet_Sponge:

blocking on corner apex/exit is ok as long as you arent violently swerving left to right to block. Only one movement when blocking in the braking zone. Sometimes its better to give up the corner entry so you can re-overtake after a better exit.
Just because you are clearly faster than the guy in front, it doesnt give you the right to tap them out of the way, you must still overtake safely, if you do make contact and theres a spin, etiquette is to wait for them to go back ahead. All overtakes are started in the previous corner, plan ahead and its more likely to work, divebombing is stupid and WILL cause an accident.
and my biggest annoyance.... STICKING YOUR NOSE UP THE INSIDE IN A CORNER IS NOT BEING ALONGSIDE! Far too many times I have had this happen, it is not a legitimate challenge for a corner and is not 'alongside', all you are doing is sticking your nose into a blind spot and asking the driver in front to turn across it, its gonna take out them, you or both. Be sensible about it, you dont see pro drivers doing this kind of thing for good reason.
And one more thing, if you go off track to hold more speed out of a corner for an overtake, just know that I will never let you rejoin the track unless you have backed off

easier to wait for the right time then just doing whatever. its very hard to call a racing incidents as there's been many time when someone put the brakes on, I didn't expect it and just wasn't ready, with nothing you can do. the first time I went into a open lobby, and yeah there's a reason i only race with the league. lol

[TFerg20]

Originally posted by Easty:

With defending your position, as in real life racing, you can only make one defensive move, you can move left or right once to defend your position, once you have moved that's it till you exit the next corner you come to, no weaving all over the place to block the car behind, you can move around if you are trying to break a slipstream but not if they are in a position to overtake you. No changing of racing line when in the braking zone of a corner to block the car behind. Choose your racing line and stick to it.

yeah, it can just cause the driver behind to lose control and crash themself, not fun.

[TFerg20]

this is a good video about defending and overtaking safely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jn5zpjkQIc

[Easty]

I don't know if there is a vid on YouTube or not, but would be good if someone made one that people could be directed to and watch. There are a hell of a lot of people that think they know what the racing rules actually are, online and real racing . Mostly bad habits picked up from others that think they know racing rules there are.
I would definitely recommend going to a few different racing leagues web sites and have a read through some of their set out rules. They are all based on real world racing rules and all are almost identical word for word. You will find that things you thought were ok are actually against the rules.

A league i regularly race on and their rules.
http://www.outlawsracing.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?4290

[EF_Neo1st]

Many guys just wooble left and right trying to look more dangerous making the driver behind craw back in fear, or they simply ignore the driver that is trying to overtake and "go for their line anyway" like the other driver is not there already (and they say "dont you know the line idiot? go race against AI and learn the track first!") when they dont even think a normal player is not an AI that will always give the player room (both when overtaking or defending . . AI at ACC is too passive even at 100% aggression and I really believe much of this wrong behavior is because these other drivers had practice with AI and think other players wil behave like AI do).

If a driver is already by your side, dont just turn-in on him just because "the racing line is there", racing line dont give you priority much less reason to take others off just because the game still count you as in front, being in front or being behind dont give anyone priority to the racing line just because, be it overtaking or defending, the priority over the line is to who is already at the line, period, you drive side by side for as long as you can (again, not just puncting/bumping/pushing the other car out of the line just because of "hippity hoppity, you are at the line but your line is now my property").

Drive paying attention to radar (for all the non VR and non triple screens users) and dont overdo, if you see someone with 0.1s from you, or 0.0s from you, assume it is an overtake being done and pay attention to the radar at all times... "but, my driving, I must pay attention to the turn, to the line".

First of all, "turn off the racing line", dont just go for the line like it was the only possible way (and I see this behavior a lot, guys do a mistake and instead of carrying over a wider line with more speed they reduce even more to do a sharper turn and return faster to the linem not only when fighting for positions but alone at the track), the line also blind to the moment of overtaking/defense and may lead to the "hippity hoppity" situation where one or both drivers only know how to drive at the racing line, there is a track outside the racing line and it is not "offtrack only", it will require more driving skills and knowledge to drive as fast there, also consider that if you are by the side of the other guy that is on the inside, he will also not be able to push as hard or else you both will be collected on the crash, you just need to hold your line on the outside while carry as much speed as you can.

When both drivers are side by side before turn in:
- if you are on the outside for the turn, dont just do the turn following the raicng line, you have to do the turn considering the other driver is by your side in case he actually is, so always check radar when doing it ("but, but . . . racing line ..." -> stop, there is no racing line, there is someone by your side, period).
- if you are on the inside for the turn, dont just go straight thinking the other guy will also just go straight too, if you do that it most likely will result in you collecting both offtrack ("but, but . . . I am on the inside, he have to respect me" -> no, you have to brake enough for the turn despite being on the inside and going straight or super wide just to push someone else off is disrespectful and unsportsmanlike conduct, you are basically just being a danger to yourself and to others). Missing braking points happen when on the inside for a turn and fighting for position, but try not to lose too much your braking point.

When both drivers are side by side on a turn:
- If you are on the outside, dont turn in for the racing line, there is another driver there by your side. ("but, but . . . racing line is on the inside" -> carry over off the racing line).
- If you are on the inside, dont use so much throttle or else you will go sliding more and there is another driver there by your side. ("but, but . . . racing line opens wide for the turn exit" -> carry over off the racing line).
As easy as that, whoever exit the turn with more speed and grip to carry more speed through the following straight will get the position.

When both drivers are side by side on turn exit:
- Both have to hold their lines and dont just turn too much or go super wide expecting the other driver to just pull off and leave room.

If you are faster, try to check where you are actually faster and take the position there, without puncting/bumping/pushing the other driver offtrack.

Also, if you are faster (or if you think you are faster . . .or if you have been overtaken), dont go flickering lights requesting position with "hippity hoppity, your position is now my property", that is not how overtakes are done in races and flickering lights is just for someone being overlapped and that is blocking you on purpose or without awareness of you there, it is not to request position and is an ass move to go flickering lights (and much more of an ass to punct the driver in front in case the position is not given to you, I have seen this many times when I was watching drivers behind me to check if someone was to overtake me and saw the driver behind the driver behind me flickering light . . . I have even been target of this lame ass move in some races already too, not just noticed guys flickering lights to others).

If you have been overtaken, or even if you have been puncted, got a bump, etc ... dont go mad because of it chasing the other guy (or everyone on the track) to crash on him (or everyone else), chill out and keep driving, be it was a lame ass move or a rookie mistake (that even real life professionals can make such mistakes like losing braking point or grip and not being able to avoid the hit), just chill out and try to keep racing clean.
If the other driver was being a smartass, he will be like that to everyone else he find on his way and you dont need to be another smartass pulling the same move on others, or just a kamikaze bastard divebombing through turns and chicanes trying to kill that driver or everyone else, just drive safe and do your race, it is an open lobby, positions mean nothing but a position, dont even mean points not anything anyway and even if these meant points on a championship, "win or wall" dont grant victory, but driving clean and always looking for as better position as possible while being consistent with your driving and positions can grant you a championship, even more if everyone else is fighting to the death for positions.

[Suicide||G.U.R.K.E 胡瓜]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Many guys just wooble left and right trying to look more dangerous making the driver behind craw back in fear, or they simply ignore the driver that is trying to overtake and "go for their line anyway" like the other driver is not there already (and they say "dont you know the line idiot? go race against AI and learn the track first!") when they dont even think a normal player is not an AI that will always give the player room (both when overtaking or defending . . AI at ACC is too passive even at 100% aggression and I really believe much of this wrong behavior is because these other drivers had practice with AI and think other players wil behave like AI do)......

Thank you very much for your explanations. I am fairly new to ACC and all i did up until now was getting used to my car and the tracks in Free Practice with some races against AI (90/90). I would consider myself a more cautious driver, with more focus on a clean race than beeing number one at all costs.
Like when i am racing on Brands Hatch and i am side by side (or a bit in front) with another car (he is on the inside) on the straight before T1, i get off the gas and let him go in front of me, then i take T1 a bit tighter so i am on the inside up to T2 and maybe can catch him on the break.
I have to say that i am really looking forward to race with other ppl, but i am a bit scared that i ruin someone else´s race with stupid mistakes^^ Maybe i should just jump in the cold water and see how it goes :)

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Suicide||G.U.R.K.E 胡瓜:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Many guys just wooble left and right trying to look more dangerous making the driver behind craw back in fear, or they simply ignore the driver that is trying to overtake and "go for their line anyway" like the other driver is not there already (and they say "dont you know the line idiot? go race against AI and learn the track first!") when they dont even think a normal player is not an AI that will always give the player room (both when overtaking or defending . . AI at ACC is too passive even at 100% aggression and I really believe much of this wrong behavior is because these other drivers had practice with AI and think other players wil behave like AI do)......

Thank you very much for your explanations. I am fairly new to ACC and all i did up until now was getting used to my car and the tracks in Free Practice with some races against AI (90/90). I would consider myself a more cautious driver, with more focus on a clean race than beeing number one at all costs.
Like when i am racing on Brands Hatch and i am side by side (or a bit in front) with another car (he is on the inside) on the straight before T1, i get off the gas and let him go in front of me, then i take T1 a bit tighter so i am on the inside up to T2 and maybe can catch him on the break.
I have to say that i am really looking forward to race with other ppl, but i am a bit scared that i ruin someone else´s race with stupid mistakes^^ Maybe i should just jump in the cold water and see how it goes :)

Now that I noticed . . . it was not to be crawl (that I also written wrong) but cower back in fear, because the other guy is driving erratically.

Well, yes, if you drive safe you will find your place at the race and wil be able to improve while racing.
If you drive like a madman divebombing everyone, like an ass pushing others offtrack or woobling in front or by the side, or like a total looser just trying to kill others, not only you gain nothing with it but also learn and improve nothing too.

Looking to drive safe is the best way, keep it up ;)

I would say, just get off the gas if someone is some 0.3s or closer, on turns like Brands T1, if you are not confident enough to carry as much speed to dont cause an accident (I mean, something around 140Km/h there usually do the job against most drivers, but faster drivers there can go at around 150Km/h) and you know the guy behind can do that turn much faster than you (like some 20Km/h faster).
The guy behind will be at fault, but if he just goes for the turn behind you, believing in your speed there, and you reduce too much through the turn, "maybe" the guy behind will not have reaction time neither room to avoid the hit, but his overtaking opportunity would be at T2 braking point, not there at the downhill of T1, still to put on your side for T2 he will try to be as close as possible and with as much speed as possible at T1, or else he would be already my your side, on the inside, before T1, then if you turn in on him, it would be your fault (less if you two end up side by side on T1 and he leave you no room or loses control of his car, then it would be just a race casuality by mistake of both).
^obviously, it all is my opinions and how I would see the situations there

[Sneakygloworm]

These are all excellent points and renews one's faith in racing online. Unfortunately, in reality, it all generally ends up being a complete clusterf@%k at turn 1. Even if sensible drivers approach turn 1 with absolute caution and hold the line, some a-hole will almost always wipe half the field out. It's actually better sometimes to start at the back of the pack and allow the carnage to take place and then drive round it all.

Single player is a good learning tool as it does teach people corner etiquette and how to drive through corners quickly and safely while 2 abreast. Spacial awareness is key and knowing who's left, right and behind is pretty important when going for a move.

Originally posted by Suicide||G.U.R.K.E 胡瓜:

Thank you very much for your explanations. I am fairly new to ACC and all i did up until now was getting used to my car and the tracks in Free Practice with some races against AI (90/90). I would consider myself a more cautious driver, with more focus on a clean race than beeing number one at all costs.
Like when i am racing on Brands Hatch and i am side by side (or a bit in front) with another car (he is on the inside) on the straight before T1, i get off the gas and let him go in front of me, then i take T1 a bit tighter so i am on the inside up to T2 and maybe can catch him on the break.
I have to say that i am really looking forward to race with other ppl, but i am a bit scared that i ruin someone else´s race with stupid mistakes^^ Maybe i should just jump in the cold water and see how it goes :)

The only way you're going to see and learn and adapt is literally to get in amongst it all and steer and stab at brake and throttle. After turn 1 or 2, the field tends to space out a lot, you find your position and then you can concentrate on driving. If someone's approaching fast and has an obvious speed advantage, let them through. Blocking an obvious alien is just gonna make them mad. You'll find that some people will be around your level and ability and that's where the racing is.

Oh yeah, and winning in open lobbies is absolutely not important. Finding the groove with 3 or 4 other cars back in 17th position is still the same as being in front. The fight is still the same. Enjoy.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Sneakygloworm:

The only way you're going to see and learn and adapt is literally to get in amongst it all and steer and stab at brake and throttle. After turn 1 or 2, the field tends to space out a lot, you find your position and then you can concentrate on driving. If someone's approaching fast and has an obvious speed advantage, let them through. Blocking an obvious alien is just gonna make them mad. You'll find that some people will be around your level and ability and that's where the racing is.

I would say blocking an obvious alien will not do any good, even because the alien will find his way, but blocking someone that is 3s or more faster than you per lap is about the same (and for that it is not needed to be an alien, 3s is already more than enough).
The guy being some 2s or 3s faster will already cause a constant pressure forcing the slower driver in front to brake deeper and use more throttle through turns than his current skills can deliver.
It may be good if the slower driver learn something from it, but most certainly the slower driver holding someone 2s or 3s faster on his back will also learn that he wear tyres a lot faster doing it (and also probably will be overtaken anyway, be it by one of his mistakes, a moment where he go offtrack or spin, be it into a wall or grass/dirt, or just because the guy behind found a turn he does a lot better and overtaken on the following straight or a turn he brake much deeper and did the dive bomb nove on the inside).

I would say a good fight is 2s difference and under, 2s difference and over it start to be way too much pressure for no results other than wearing off his own tyres (how many times I did not driven for 4 or 5 laps behind someone 3s slower than me to then just have the guy in front lose his car and crash on a wall . . . once a guy even blame me, like I am at fault for his mistake, when I was just at fault for my lack of overtaking skills).

[Suicide||G.U.R.K.E 胡瓜]

...or else he would be already my your side, on the inside, before T1, then if you turn in on him...

That is exactly the situation i meant with my explanation. He is in front of me at the last turn onto the straight. I gain on him on the outside and end up next to him or a tiny bit in front, before the braking zone (when you go outside to take T1 with a good apex)<-- hope that was correct ^^. That is when i get off the gas and let him go outside, so that we both can take T1 safely. Better safe than sorry :)

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Suicide||G.U.R.K.E 胡瓜:

...or else he would be already my your side, on the inside, before T1, then if you turn in on him...

That is exactly the situation i meant with my explanation. He is in front of me at the last turn onto the straight. I gain on him on the outside and end up next to him or a tiny bit in front, before the braking zone (when you go outside to take T1 with a good apex)<-- hope that was correct ^^. That is when i get off the gas and let him go outside, so that we both can take T1 safely. Better safe than sorry :)

What times you was doing there at Brands and what times the guy behind you was doing?