Realism question ?

[Pendragon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4342JC3Fgc

This video is probably made for comparing graphics and sounds with the real life, yet something has caught my attention. The steering wheel, the car control, in real life the driver needs to make a lot of counter steering and little adjustments to keep the car under control while entering the corner, in corner and exits. When we look at the ACC that looks very soft and gentle. You don't need much counter steering or little adjustments to keep the car under control, you just need a few it is not so bad of course, but this comparison shows a huge difference.

So my question is, is ACC so unrealistic in terms of how a car behaviors? Is it too easy compared to real life so you don't need much skill? ( The video is just an example, do not only look at it, keep in mind your own experience )

[rtazz17]

Agree with poster above. If you have an aggressive setup on the car and arent using traction control and driving to the limit you will constantly be on top of the wheel. Its fairly accurate.

[DC2Dixon]

According to Nicky Thiim ACC isn't close to real life at all. He drives the V12 vantage in the Blancpain series IRL so he should know. You will always get sim racers saying x game is so realistic but they often have nothing to compare it with except other sims. IMO sims aren't going to be close to real life any time soon. A good example to me is in AC I could do the nordschleife in 6.28 in the pagani zonda R yet IRL the lap record for it is a 6.47. I'm above average but not as fast as the top guys so if I can go 19 seconds quicker than a race driver it proves sims are just games at the end of the day.

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I've never heard any racing driver say x sim is close to real life. Every sim has good and bad points and at the end of the day many sim racers have never driven a race car to know what is accurate and what is not. Jimmy Broadbent has driven a few cars recently then drove them on the sim and said sims are far easier than real life. Nicky Thiim said ACC is a good game but laughed when someone asked if ACC is like real life. IMO all the proof you need that sims aren't close to real life.

[Mahjik]

No consumer based racing sim is "exactly" like real life and won't be for a very long time. Tire behavior is still a black art and the simple truth we don't have the computing power at home today to really do what needs to be done. Tire manufacturers use large server based systems just to simulate various situations for a single tire. We "gamers" or "sim racers" if you want, are asking for our "affordable" home systems to do tire, suspension, chassis, aero simulation as well as sound, graphics AI, and input processing all at amazing frame rates.

That being said, most of the current crop of sim titles do a decent job of providing the "experience" of what it's like to drive and race a real race car.

[Shodes]

Daaaayyyyyytonnnahhhhh...lets go away....DAYTONAAAAH!

[OMG 77]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

According to Nicky Thiim ACC isn't close to real life at all. He drives the V12 vantage in the Blancpain series IRL so he should know. You will always get sim racers saying x game is so realistic but they often have nothing to compare it with except other sims. IMO sims aren't going to be close to real life any time soon. A good example to me is in AC I could do the nordschleife in 6.28 in the pagani zonda R yet IRL the lap record for it is a 6.47. I'm above average but not as fast as the top guys so if I can go 19 seconds quicker than a race driver it proves sims are just games at the end of the day.

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I've never heard any racing driver say x sim is close to real life. Every sim has good and bad points and at the end of the day many sim racers have never driven a race car to know what is accurate and what is not. Jimmy Broadbent has driven a few cars recently then drove them on the sim and said sims are far easier than real life. Nicky Thiim said ACC is a good game but laughed when someone asked if ACC is like real life. IMO all the proof you need that sims aren't close to real life.

The aston in this games a bad example to prove a point it's pants.

When ever i see real life vs sim they look good to me.
I saw this morning on youtube a gtsports Nismo gtr vs a real gtr Nismo@nurbring and it looked identical with wheel input and times, speed.

[Wylie28]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

According to Nicky Thiim ACC isn't close to real life at all. He drives the V12 vantage in the Blancpain series IRL so he should know. You will always get sim racers saying x game is so realistic but they often have nothing to compare it with except other sims. IMO sims aren't going to be close to real life any time soon. A good example to me is in AC I could do the nordschleife in 6.28 in the pagani zonda R yet IRL the lap record for it is a 6.47. I'm above average but not as fast as the top guys so if I can go 19 seconds quicker than a race driver it proves sims are just games at the end of the day.

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I've never heard any racing driver say x sim is close to real life. Every sim has good and bad points and at the end of the day many sim racers have never driven a race car to know what is accurate and what is not. Jimmy Broadbent has driven a few cars recently then drove them on the sim and said sims are far easier than real life. Nicky Thiim said ACC is a good game but laughed when someone asked if ACC is like real life. IMO all the proof you need that sims aren't close to real life.

Others say it is. You cant pick people that support the argument you want to be true and ignore all other proffesionals. The situation is simply complex.

You have lots of cars.

You have physics, which is different from the car model, which is different from the car parameters for each.

You have drivers that underatand FFB doesnt even attempt to replicate the real thing and learn ir before deciding how the car "drives". You have ones that drive 4 laps and dont modify a damn thing.

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

According to Nicky Thiim ACC isn't close to real life at all. He drives the V12 vantage in the Blancpain series IRL so he should know. You will always get sim racers saying x game is so realistic but they often have nothing to compare it with except other sims. IMO sims aren't going to be close to real life any time soon. A good example to me is in AC I could do the nordschleife in 6.28 in the pagani zonda R yet IRL the lap record for it is a 6.47. I'm above average but not as fast as the top guys so if I can go 19 seconds quicker than a race driver it proves sims are just games at the end of the day.

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I've never heard any racing driver say x sim is close to real life. Every sim has good and bad points and at the end of the day many sim racers have never driven a race car to know what is accurate and what is not. Jimmy Broadbent has driven a few cars recently then drove them on the sim and said sims are far easier than real life. Nicky Thiim said ACC is a good game but laughed when someone asked if ACC is like real life. IMO all the proof you need that sims aren't close to real life.

The aston in this games a bad example to prove a point it's pants.

When ever i see real life vs sim they look good to me.
I saw this morning on youtube a gtsports Nismo gtr vs a real gtr Nismo@nurbring and it looked identical with wheel input and times.

What are you comparing the aston to tho is my point? If he drives the car IRL yet the one in the game is pants as you say whats to say the other cars are to? I can only assume your comparing it to the other cars in game? Unless you have driven a GT3 car your simply guessing what the car should be doing IMO.

Others have used the driving on the limit argument but the limit in games and real life are different. Mahjik said it best, how is a £2000 computer going to simulate everything that goes on with a car? Even the million pound simulators F1 teams use aren't 100% accurate so to expect the average Joe's computer to cope with that is laughable IMO. I get they give a good sense of driving a car but realistic they are not. Maybe in 20 years or so but ATM "sims" are just games that give a sense of what it might be like to drive the cars IRL. You say about the GTR but what about me going 19 seconds quicker around the Nordschleife in the zonda R?

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by Wylie28:

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

According to Nicky Thiim ACC isn't close to real life at all. He drives the V12 vantage in the Blancpain series IRL so he should know. You will always get sim racers saying x game is so realistic but they often have nothing to compare it with except other sims. IMO sims aren't going to be close to real life any time soon. A good example to me is in AC I could do the nordschleife in 6.28 in the pagani zonda R yet IRL the lap record for it is a 6.47. I'm above average but not as fast as the top guys so if I can go 19 seconds quicker than a race driver it proves sims are just games at the end of the day.

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I've never heard any racing driver say x sim is close to real life. Every sim has good and bad points and at the end of the day many sim racers have never driven a race car to know what is accurate and what is not. Jimmy Broadbent has driven a few cars recently then drove them on the sim and said sims are far easier than real life. Nicky Thiim said ACC is a good game but laughed when someone asked if ACC is like real life. IMO all the proof you need that sims aren't close to real life.

Others say it is. You cant pick people that support the argument you want to be true and ignore all other proffesionals. The situation is simply complex.

You have lots of cars.

You have physics, which is different from the car model, which is different from the car parameters for each.

You have drivers that underatand FFB doesnt even attempt to replicate the real thing and learn ir before deciding how the car "drives". You have ones that drive 4 laps and dont modify a damn thing.

Who has said it 100% accurate tho? I've never once seen or heard anyone except sim racers say sims are exactly like real life. There are some that give a good sense or realism but they aren't close to real life yet. Every racing driver I've ever heard that doesn't play games say sims aren't close to real life and the ones that do play games say its not like real life. Simular in some aspects but not as hard as in real life.

[Shodes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWnzfA9AqrA

[Mahjik]

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

Simular in some aspects but not as hard as in real life.

99% of the time, it's the other way around... Harder than real life.. Why? Because you don't have all the same sensations as well as fidelity of the controls like a real race car. Nicky is a good example. You'll see him lose control of the sim cars at times where as you won't see him get that out of control in a real car. There are just a lot of sensations you can't replicate at home, even with tactile devices and VR.

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by Mahjik:

Originally posted by dc2dixon:

Simular in some aspects but not as hard as in real life.

99% of the time, it's the other way around... Harder than real life.. Why? Because you don't have all the same sensations as well as fidelity of the controls like a real race car. Nicky is a good example. You'll see him lose control of the sim cars at times where as you won't see him get that out of control in a real car. There are just a lot of sensations you can't replicate at home, even with tactile devices and VR.

Ye there are 2 sides to that IMO, IRL you get the seat of your pants feel but IRL you also have the fear and the G forces to cope with. It's easier to know what the car is doing on the limit IRL as like you say you have the sensations but to get to the limit IRL is a lot harder than sitting in your house playing a game. Completely agree with what your saying there are just some other factors to consider also.

[OMG 77]

I don't really care if the car's spot on as long as taking the driving line and hitting the apex is the fastest way to drive in game.

[Pendragon]

Originally posted by Jack Straw:

More than likely is that you're not driving on the limit. Or the RL driver's setup is very aggressive and that is how he likes the car.

Check out how Fernando Alonso drives. His style is so aggressive with inputs that the Toyota Gazoo team had him in the middle of the night stints during LeMans last year. No one else on the team was able to generate tyre temps like nando due to his driving style and how he attacks corners.

I'm not saying proves/disproves your theory, but we have to also understand that the RL driver is a professional and the car is set up according to his preferred driving style.

Would like to see some real racers with a 'Safe' and 'Not aggressive' setup with close lap times to this ones. And the real life driver obviously using a much aggressive line and using all of the track on the limit, yet he isn't faster than the guy below, who is not aggressive at all and driving like on the road. This just makes me think that ACC is very easy, and also pretty unrealistic accordingly.

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

I don't really care if the car's spot on as long as taking the driving line and hitting the apex is the fastest way to drive in game.

Ye same, I accept "sims" are just games no matter how people label them. I know for a fact what I can do in games would be impossible for me to do IRL so gave up on the realistic aspect of games a long time ago. There all games so as long as people are having fun it doesn't matter which one you play.

[DC2Dixon]

Originally posted by Pendragon:

Originally posted by Jack Straw:

More than likely is that you're not driving on the limit. Or the RL driver's setup is very aggressive and that is how he likes the car.

Check out how Fernando Alonso drives. His style is so aggressive with inputs that the Toyota Gazoo team had him in the middle of the night stints during LeMans last year. No one else on the team was able to generate tyre temps like nando due to his driving style and how he attacks corners.

I'm not saying proves/disproves your theory, but we have to also understand that the RL driver is a professional and the car is set up according to his preferred driving style.

Would like to see some real racers with a 'Safe' and 'Not aggressive' setup with close lap times to this ones. And the real life driver obviously using a much aggressive line and using all of the track on the limit, yet he isn't faster than the guy below, who is not aggressive at all and driving like on the road. This just makes me think that ACC is very easy, and also pretty unrealistic accordingly.

Ye ACC is easy to play, I'm having to use a pad atm as my pedals are broke yet still managed a 2.01 at silverstone in only my second race around there. So in 20 mins or driving I'm not far off the real life times with a pad. I think I'd do a 1.58/9 on my wheel without much practise so it is very easy to be on par with real times in games.