Does Item Rank matter?

[Phoenix-Mask]

The reason i ask is because from what i could find so far all items seems to have the same max stats. So since you can go to item world as often as you want the only different between low ranked and high ranked items seems to be that with high ranked you can reach the max faster.

[FDru]

Yeah, the way I understand it you can max any item as long as you're willing to level it up enough.

[Mister]

yea best item is axel gear cause it start with 4 movement

[archmag]

Originally posted by Mister:

yea best item is axel gear cause it start with 4 movement

Isn't amount of extra movement that you can add limited? Or the total cap is the same?

And I heard axes with high rank can't be maxed in all stats because of too high negative stats in the beginning

[Phoenix-Mask]

I'm not sure were but i once read it can be better to get deep into the item world without leveling so the monsters stayon a low level till you start leveling on deeper floors. Does that really help and if yes then why?

[archmag]

Originally posted by Phoenix-Mask:

I'm not sure were but i once read it can be better to get deep into the item world without leveling so the monsters stayon a low level till you start leveling on deeper floors. Does that really help and if yes then why?

I heard the same. As far as I understand there are several bonuses that affect item stats:
Training, Kill, Level, Rarity.

Training increases base stats of the item that are later multiplied by the other three. There is a hard cap for base stats somewhere in the millions (don't remember the exact number). To get training you need to kill bosses (item generals/gods), clear mystery rooms, defeat invaders.

Kill is similar to experience, is rewarder for killing stronger enemies. Is soft capped at 400 and hard capped at 550, you barely gain anything for the last 150 so it may be easier to stop at soft cap. Best way to increase it is to raise difficulty in cheat shop to 20 stars.

Level is gained by earning corresponding rewards from the bonus gauge, picking up level fish and destroying level something (forgot the name). It is softcapped at 500, hardcapped at 9999, you need to pass a bill after every 500 level to unlock ability to gain next 500. After the first 500 levels increase become much smaller. Increasing level increases difficulty of enemies.

Rarity increases at the same time as training but is capped at 100 where item becomes epic.

So the recommended way to upgrade an item was to max base stats through training first by skipping levels and fighting bosses only so that bosses don't scale too high. It was recommended to pump up difficulty to 20 stars so that you gain some kill bonuses while you gain training. Item level does not increase so difficulty remains the same as you progress. When you can training bonus you can finish kill bonus and then remove 20 star difficulty increase and start upgrading level till you max the item.

It was also said that it is almost impossible to level item incorrectly (I guess the only way to fail is with axes if you don't remove negative penalty to stats early), the only difference will be the amount of time that you need to spend on leveling (for some items maxing base stats required 800 bosses, for others up to 3000). For axes you need to fill the item with a lot of innocents while you gain train bonus and pass some bills to get all base stats into positive.

I may be forgetting something as I didn't try it myself, but what I understood sounded something like this.

Short answer: to keep difficulty of bosses low so that you can upgrade base stats for the item till max.

[Phoenix-Mask]

Is 20 stars alone enough for kill bonus or would it still depend on difference of power between me and the enemies? Like would i still get kill bonus if i'm far higher in lvl because i'm running a low ranked item or do i need to be in a higher ranked item so they are closer to my level?

[archmag]

Originally posted by Phoenix-Mask:

Is 20 stars alone enough for kill bonus or would it still depend on difference of power between me and the enemies? Like would i still get kill bonus if i'm far higher in lvl because i'm running a low ranked item or do i need to be in a higher ranked item so they are closer to my level?

Kill bonus is like experience. It increases for every enemy you kill. The more enemies you kill and the stronger they are the faster it goes. Certainly it will increase faster in higher ranked items, but you still need to kill enemies and do it quickly for it to be efficient, so you may need to balance things out - max character stats first before trying to max out items, get aoe spells and abilities ready, setup some units with evilities and squads. Recommended unit for maxing kill bonus is Sage because it can aoe whole level, so you can enter new floor, kill everyone in single cast, progress to the next one.

For training bonus you need single target dps and some squad that allows you to skip floors. You turn on Stop on boss option in cheat shop, use character from that squad to rush to the exit of the floor and every 2nd floor you visit there will be a boss that you kill with single target dps and then leave the floor without killing everyone else.

This are late game grinds when you already have maxed characters and started working on items, so it is not necessary for intermediate items that you don't plan to max. For those you can use any order of progression in the item world. It may even seem as it is a waste of time to spend it on those items. But there can be some reasons to run through them too - like getting innocents.

[EllyBeeShaped]

If I remember correctly, the breakpoint for axes is anything higher than tier 3 Carnage axes cannot be maxed in all stats because the penalties are too large at the beginning.

So the best axes to max are the rank 40 non-carnage Item World specials, because then you get the extra special innocent in addition to high (ish) starting stats.

[Phoenix-Mask]

Good to know atm my equip is worthles compared to stats from my high level xD And i have mastery maxed on weapon and armor

[forrestomintero]

Necro, but something that was missed in this conversation is that the item assembly can be a decent way to dodge some of the grind. The "increase x stat" bills count toward the training bonus, which means if you have a bunch of random trash in your inventory you can convert it to item assembly points to save yourself a few boss battles.

[CarThief]

In my own experience, i've seen some items go just a smidge higher if their natural stats are already high, but yeah, ultimately you're still landing the item's stats in the same 2M-stat ballpark. (Best i've gotten is 2237974 from a lvl 9999 Great Baal Horn.)

It ultimately just appears to make it easier to reach the 2M cap if the stat in question default pretty high on the item (you can exeed the cap, but very minimally, like mere single points instead of hundreds, not really worth the grind).

So the main thing to consider is the item itself. Do you want a particular weapon to high stats, or an accessory?

If an accessory, then what do you want it for? Stats while keeping your crit at 100% with curry? I heard Barefoot X is the best item for that due to it's movement bonus. But if you don't care about that extra bit of movement, Hercules' Armor or Trapahezadon or whatever it was named are faster to level.

Edit: If you're picking Axel Gear be aware you cannot accuire or equip new Unique Innocents onto it!
(And there's aparrantly a bug where enemy units using it cannot gain the buff from Rapid Movement or Assault Attack and such movement-based evilities. Fortunately, player units still seemingly can, so that shouldn't be a issue on PC either way if online functions like the map editor don't work there which would've let you build up units for other players to fight.)

If you're like me, and want to build up a team on the Switch to have other players fight, i'd recommend Providence (the highest tier Glasses), with it's (innate?) +10% crit, which can be further enhanced by Weak Searcher (Mao's passive, i think?) for another +20 crit. And then of course making use of having 90-100% crit by going for crit-damage enhancers for the best damage output.

Edit: If you're feeling crazy... I think you can get TWO unique evilities on a single Weapon, if it's one of the Fun/gag items. You get the default one, and can equip an extra one you've gotten from Item Gods. That said, their stats are low, so you'd be grinding a LOT. Not entirely related, but hey, if you're looking for items to grind... :P

(That said, Unique Evilities do not stack, so... Yeah. Can't get -60% Physical damage with x3 Wuss or such. At best a -30% from Kinder Gartener, Wuss and Caregiver combined. I don't think the +10% damage to monster allies Unique Evility stacks either, each person holding it presumably only gives allies 10% even if holding multiple. But never tried that, so not 100% sure.)

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Originally posted by CarThief:

(As neat as Axel Gear sounds, be aware: You do not get per-tile movement bonuses while it is equipped, such as the Assault Attack or Rapid Movement unique Evilities! I found that out the hard way. I guess "teleporting" like that, while awesome, has a coding oversight that makes those evilities not work.)

What? You absolutely do get the benefit from Assault Attack at least.

Just tried it, and you also get the effect of Rapid Movement, so not sure what you're on about.

[CarThief]

Maybe that's a problem unique to the Switch version then? Dunno, but if i open the buff/debuff/detail menu on a unit after they've moved, the +???ATK% and Evasion buffs don't appear if they where using Axel Gear.

Maybe to investigate it later. Edit: Investigated. Seems to only affect/glitch enemies. Player units benefit from the evilities just fine, just enemies can't benefit from it if using Axel Gear. (Which sadly reminds me of how Mana Burner is also non-functional on enemies... Sadness...)
Tried it in the map editor by having a ally and enemy-copy of it both use the combo.

[ninakoru]

Rank item affect item growth directly, aside from base stats. A R40 non-LOC weapon need 3x+ the effort to max out compared to a R40 LOC weapon.