... serious, what the Hell. The story *starts* stupid.

[Earnest]

Some teenager is somehow going to prevent me from entering my building? His threat is to call 911?

Why can't I call his bluff? Seriously, call 911. Do it. Let's see how the cops react to abusing 911 to stroke some little ♥♥♥♥'s ego.

What? I mean, hello, here come the cops and they follow me to my door where my *key* opens my *apartment*. The cops arrest the ♥♥♥♥ and we skip whatever scene comes next.

I couldn't play past this. How obnoxiously stupid.

Ugh.

Why would anyone buy this dialogue? Why? lol

The Shivah was interesting from the jump. This pisses me off before I even know what's happening.

No, thanks.

[bobsson]

For what it's worth, the "5 years later" developer commentary on that scene agrees with you. He regrets making that the opening puzzle.

It's your call to make, but it'd be a shame to skip this really well done series because of the first third of the first game. (There's at least one more poorly designed puzzle in that first third)

[Earnest]

Ok, on *YOUR* recommendation I went back and played further. The very next scene was every bit as bad and annoying. And it kept on being that way.

But. It did eventually stop doing such things, or at least hid them better. And the story was kinda fun. I finished it the 2nd time I started it.

It definitely still had a lot of problems, some of which are too spoilery IMO to discuss, but it was worth the story to play through in the hopes that the next ones will be more fun.

[bobsson]

Originally posted by Geofferic:

It definitely still had a lot of problems, some of which are too spoilery IMO to discuss, but it was worth the story to play through in the hopes that the next ones will be more fun.

This is exactly how I felt, and the subsequent ones are much better. I won't claim they're perfect, by any means, but I preferred the protaganist of the 2nd (which is set in the past), the third does this character more justice, and the fourth takes the hints of metaplot and runs with them (just watch out for the sudden art style change). I haven't played the fifth yet.

I'm glad you were willing to take my word for it and give it a second shot!

[Xune]

During the opening scene there's even a dialogue option to "Restate the obvious" which acknowledges that "this is really stupid". It's this kind of cat hair mustache ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that turns me off adventure games.

So after capitulating and going to the park Rosalina now has social anxiety and won't talk to someone in public because people are watching. Oh well, I guess she's homeless now. Better curl upon a bench and wait for that dementia to set in.

[Allard]

You people have no patience.

[-ETU-Daedalus]

I felt EXACTLY the same. I was like "dude? then just call. until they arrive I'm in my apartment and he's the one explaining them." I'm not the kind that immidiately shut down the game. After that it is getting better. I find it pretty hard, however. Even without using items. Using the notebook is trial and error to find no clues and now I've tried every solution I can think of but stuck at the hospital. It drives me crazy to have that few options but still there is no answer. I have many ideas in mind but it's not possible for the characters to do so (e.g. I want to meet Susan Lee, I would just say "I'm Alex Devenport". To hell with Alexander being a man's name. What do I have to lose? But Rose just deny to use this name)

[bobsson]

Originally posted by -ETU-Daedalus:

Using the notebook is trial and error to find no clues and now I've tried every solution I can think of but stuck at the hospital. It drives me crazy to have that few options but still there is no answer. I have many ideas in mind but it's not possible for the characters to do so (e.g. I want to meet Susan Lee, I would just say "I'm Alex Devenport". To hell with Alexander being a man's name. What do I have to lose? But Rose just deny to use this name)

That's actually exactly the solution, but the interface to make that happen sucks. You have to use the Alexander name with another item in your notebook in order to shorten it to "Alex" and be able to use it.

The note you need to use is "Adiran"

[-ETU-Daedalus]

Thank you, bobsson! I got to get used to how some of those games work. And one day I hope to finish one without looking to a walkthrough or get a hint from someone ^^.

[Xune]

That's my problem, this doesn't feel like: "here's a puzzel, figure it out?" it feels like: "can you guess, from all the possible ways this problem could be solved, the way the developer wants you to solve it?"

I very much don't get on with the latter type of adventure game.

[bobsson]

I had to look that one up myself. This game is definitely not one of the better designed ones I've played, although I still enjoyed it. The rest of the series is notably better.

[-ETU-Daedalus]

Originally posted by bobsson:

The rest of the series is notably better.

That's what I was told by a friend of mine. Anyway, I watched the commentary and it was giving me good insight about game design in general and about this game. I'm glad the developer realised some of his mistakes. And I do find sympathy for him. Beside its flaws it was fun and interesting. I'll start with the second game not later than today!

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Although I can understand why this scene could frustrate newcomers, I personally find it highly amusing. It may very well be one of my favorite parts of the series so far because of the awkwardness of the situation - which reminded me a lot of Curb Your Enthusiasm - and also the voice-acting.

[Philippe_at_bay]

I haven't played the game with any of the commentary on, and probably don't intend to.

The opening puzzle bothered me a bit, but I managed to get over it by deciding that Rosa was having a really bad day, was certainly not herself, and if her reactions to the situation seems a bit off, got past it by remembering that she was in the middle of the first of a series of pzychotic episodes similar to the ones that landed her aunt in Bellevue.

Having said that, a real New Yorker, if confronted by that situation would have simply marched past the kid and encouraged him to call the police. After entering her apartment and while waiting for the police to arrive, she would have called her lawyer to commence a civil suit against the volunteer doorman, his parents, and her landlord for obstructing the quiet enjoyment of the premises to which she was lawfully entitled. Since it was a one-time event of brief duration she probably wouldn't be able to get much in the way of damages, but she would have a decent shot at legal costs and court fees.

You don't have to be a lawyer to live in Manhattan, but you probably know a couple if you do.

[Sarsben]

Yeah, that is kind of a lame puzzle, and I can see why it would give a poor first impression for a lot of people. I found it a bit misleading from a story perspective actually, as I was convinced the game was building up to something along the lines of Rosa being crazy or dead or something, the way they were making this kid doorman not recognizing her into such a big deal. I guess it didn't put me off too much though because I grew up playing adventure games with occasionally stupid puzzles. As much as people like to idealize "the classics," many old Sierra and Lucasarts games had equally contrived puzzles.

I thought the puzzle design in this game was at the very least better than average, by the standards of most modern adventures, and I liked the story. Looking forward to trying the rest of the series.

[bobsson]

Originally posted by Sarsben:

Yeah, that is kind of a lame puzzle, and I can see why it would give a poor first impression for a lot of people. ... I guess it didn't put me off too much though because I grew up playing adventure games with occasionally stupid puzzles. As much as people like to idealize "the classics," many old Sierra and Lucasarts games had equally contrived puzzles.

Oh, I definitely agree. But when the first puzzle is that bad (especially when combined with the dog-around-lightpost one that immediately follows it), it's very easy to see how some people can assume the whole game is like that and dump it. If there were one or two engaging ones first, then the "ugh" ones, it wouldn't feel so bad.