Removed from Wishlist, no DLSS or any decent form of AA!

[Phaz]

Just watched the Digital Foundry video on the game. The lack of DLSS, or any form or upscaling or decent anti-aliasing is just a literal gamebreaker! How you can you release such a great looking game art-wise, but have this HUGE blemish on it?!

I removed it from my wishlist. :(

Call me if DLSS get's added down the line. The game looks very interesting, but this image quality is just not acceptable in 2025. Conveniently, the issue doesn't really show in the trailer...

The DF video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3irKpQud2o

[aplikantgold]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hurricane:

Why would you want that?
Do you even understand the purpose of these features?
That's a layer of ugly paint over un-optimised garbage.
:rfacepalm:

Why do you even comment when its obvious that you dont know what you are talking about?

[Kboss]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Razzle:

Am i wrong ? I thought DLSS and FSR is meant to make the games look sh8t but runs better on pcs
usually almost every game has AA just not hte DLSS/FSR stuff that devs use as a poor excuse to increase performance for shoddy ports

not all dlss is bad you can use dlss with nativ what look much better but the most of people dnt understand that dlss have 4 modes

[Azravos]

Popular modern AA methods (e.g., DLSS, DLAA, TAA) all rely on some form of temporal interpolation, which will always introduce motion blur. This happens regardless of whether they’re upscaling or running at native resolution.

But of course, the amount of blur varies by technique, but it will always be present to some degree. FXAA and SMAA, being purely spatial, are exceptions though because they don't rely on any interpolation. But those are hardly considered "modern" any more so are rarely used.

I'm always for options though. So if you like AA use AA. If you don't .. well don't. However recent modern games (using UE5 engine predominantly, but there are other engines as well) pretty much REQUIRES the use of these techniques to get anywhere NEAR playable framerates (Which i consider to be about 100+ FPS). And THIS is where the problem is and why some people are upset. Because it's not really optional any more.

The effect I feel when playing games using these techniques is a bit like looking through glasses that isn't a match for your eyes. It's not exactly as strong as that but it invokes the same "wear" on the eyes. Hence.. the issue.

That being said I'd still want my games to look crisp and perform well. Whether the image is static or in motion.

[Echorion]

I mean that is dumb af I won't lie, but I suggest getting the lossless scalign app on steam regardless. It works so damn well.

[aplikantgold]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Azravos:

Popular modern AA methods (e.g., DLSS, DLAA, TAA) all rely on some form of temporal interpolation, which will always introduce motion blur. This happens regardless of whether they’re upscaling or running at native resolution.

But of course, the amount of blur varies by technique, but it will always be present to some degree. FXAA and SMAA, being purely spatial, are exceptions though because they don't rely on any interpolation. But those are hardly considered "modern" any more so are rarely used.

I'm always for options. So if you like AA use AA. If you don't .. well don't. However recent modern games (using UE5 engine predominantly, but there are other engines as well) pretty much REQUIRES the use of these techniques to get anywhere NEAR playable framerates (Which i consider to be about 100+ FPS). And THIS is where the problem is and why some people are upset. Because it's not really optional any more.

The effect I feel when playing games using these techniques is a bit like looking through glasses that isn't a match for your eyes. It's not exactly as strong as that but it invokes the same "wear" on the eyes. Hence.. the issue.

Did you ever see a game @4K with DLAA? Blur? Stop repeating some stupid statements that you heard in internet.

[Quagimus Decimus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Someone who doesnt understand the meshes and bitmaps require 4k textures to even look nice on higher resolutions. Dlss/fsr and or aa isnt going to do squat to fix that even if it was available. 2025 gaming has gone to the dogs with people and devs using these "features" to ruin graphic fidelity as we know it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Didn't have time earlier, but now I'm going to break up this ridiculous notion of gaming that's been going on for too long.

This specific user is ideal, because they themselves don't understand the resoltuon they're using isn't meant for gaming. 3 card generations and these resolutions are still a gimmick for gaming. By next year we're going to have the same types crying about their 8k monitors playing GTA6 at 20-30fps with DLSS5.. maybe MFG will get them that 60fps placebo effect in time.

Gaming is, and hasn't evolved past 1080-1440p. 2k being acceptable upgrade over 1080p. 4k and above has been a resolution ideal for television, movies, 3d work, workstation workflows.. not for gaming. You can see how the "gaming" trend has become entirely luke-warm in the last 2 nivida card generations when it comes to 4k gaming. I scoff at this whole dilemma because evga left after the 30 series.. the absolute final nvidia generation that was meant for gaming. Now everything is pushing ai tensor cores, and we won't likely see any actual improvements until the 60 series. A reason why AMD cards are just slaying nvidia cards today.

I always see people chasing higher resolutions, higher framerates.. and then clinging to DLSS as a savior. Clown world.

Sorry for being mean but this comments are so stupid that i dont know if youre serious or you just trolling me.

Well you have to be stupid to think the resolutions you're "gaming" at are meant for gaming. Top end hardware still struggling to push 60 fps. Yet, 1080p still remains the king for gaming. You don't need the crutch of frame gen or now multi frame gen. Whole industry is now on crutches chasing ps3 graphics in 2025. Who's the clown in this clown world? Will you buy 8k monitors and cry about poor performance too?

[Azravos]

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Azravos:

Popular modern AA methods (e.g., DLSS, DLAA, TAA) all rely on some form of temporal interpolation, which will always introduce motion blur. This happens regardless of whether they’re upscaling or running at native resolution.

But of course, the amount of blur varies by technique, but it will always be present to some degree. FXAA and SMAA, being purely spatial, are exceptions though because they don't rely on any interpolation. But those are hardly considered "modern" any more so are rarely used.

I'm always for options. So if you like AA use AA. If you don't .. well don't. However recent modern games (using UE5 engine predominantly, but there are other engines as well) pretty much REQUIRES the use of these techniques to get anywhere NEAR playable framerates (Which i consider to be about 100+ FPS). And THIS is where the problem is and why some people are upset. Because it's not really optional any more.

The effect I feel when playing games using these techniques is a bit like looking through glasses that isn't a match for your eyes. It's not exactly as strong as that but it invokes the same "wear" on the eyes. Hence.. the issue.

Did you ever see a game @4K with DLAA? Blur? Stop repeating some stupid statements that you heard in internet.

Lol.. It's not repeated statements. Google any tech and blur, e.g "DLAA blur" and you'll see that people have had these opinions LOOONG before TI even became a thing... he's just made that opinion a bit more prominent.

And 4k? Check the steam hardware survey (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam). ~83% of all steam users are using 1080p and 1440p. So 4k is not exactly "normal". Unless you also think people using 4090s, 5090s, etc are also the norm. (hint: it's not, 0.71% of the steam userbase have a 4090...)

[Война]

Guys, do you know which country the developers from? Thank you!

[Quagimus Decimus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Azravos:

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Did you ever see a game @4K with DLAA? Blur? Stop repeating some stupid statements that you heard in internet.

Lol.. It's not repeated statements. Google any tech and blur, e.g "DLAA blur" and you'll see that people have had these opinions LOOONG before TI even became a thing... he's just made that opinion a bit more prominent.

And 4k? Check the steam hardware survey (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam). ~83% of all steam users are using 1080p and 1440p. So 4k is not exactly "normal". Unless you also think people using 4090s, 5090s, etc are also the norm. (hint: it's not, 0.71% of the steam userbase have a 4090...)

I wish more people watched, and followed this channel https://youtu.be/NxjhtkzuH9M

[aplikantgold]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Sorry for being mean but this comments are so stupid that i dont know if youre serious or you just trolling me.

Well you have to be stupid to think the resolutions you're "gaming" at are meant for gaming. Top end hardware still struggling to push 60 fps. Yet, 1080p still remains the king for gaming. You don't need the crutch of frame gen or now multi frame gen. Whole industry is now on crutches chasing ps3 graphics in 2025. Who's the clown in this clown world? Will you buy 8k monitors and cry about poor performance too?

No, i wont buy 8K TV because games on 4K screen (LG OLED 48")
are perfectly crisp from my viewing range (little over 1m away from screen). And yes, I can agree that 4K gaming isnt for everyone, now just 2-3 cards are good for it (5090, 4090 and maybe 5080/4080S). Im lucky enought that i have 4090 so gaming @ this resolution with native DLAA in framerates above 60 fps isnt a problem. In most demanding games with robust ray tracing im using DLSS Quality and with pathtracing DLSS Q + FG (CP2077, Alan Wake 2). I can agree that DLSS3 wasnt perfect but it was really ok @ quality 1440p to 4K. But now DLSS4 transformer is almost perfect, no ghosting, no blur, perfectly crisp and stable in motion. Even lower DLSS setting like balanced or performance are really good @4K. And about frame generation i can agree that when it came out it wasnt too good, had problems with on screen UI and with ghosting, but now its also really good when you use it properly (so base framerate is about 60 fps). Im really nitpicky when it comes to image quality and i must say that its doing fine. But still theres a room for improvement of course with FG. But DLSS4 transformer is crazy good.

[aplikantgold]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Azravos:

Lol.. It's not repeated statements. Google any tech and blur, e.g "DLAA blur" and you'll see that people have had these opinions LOOONG before TI even became a thing... he's just made that opinion a bit more prominent.

And 4k? Check the steam hardware survey (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam). ~83% of all steam users are using 1080p and 1440p. So 4k is not exactly "normal". Unless you also think people using 4090s, 5090s, etc are also the norm. (hint: it's not, 0.71% of the steam userbase have a 4090...)

I wish more people watched, and followed this channel https://youtu.be/NxjhtkzuH9M

Heh, i was sure that youre TI fan. Technology EVOLVE, now DLSS has new transformer model and theres no problem with blur especially with DLAA which is the best AA solution. Period. All this TI vids are about DLSS3 (which wasnt bad) and FSR 3 and lower (which is awful). Transformer model is totally different beast.

[Quagimus Decimus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Well you have to be stupid to think the resolutions you're "gaming" at are meant for gaming. Top end hardware still struggling to push 60 fps. Yet, 1080p still remains the king for gaming. You don't need the crutch of frame gen or now multi frame gen. Whole industry is now on crutches chasing ps3 graphics in 2025. Who's the clown in this clown world? Will you buy 8k monitors and cry about poor performance too?

No, i wont buy 8K TV because games on 4K screen (LG OLED 48")
are perfectly crisp from my viewing range (little over 1m away from screen). And yes, I can agree that 4K gaming isnt for everyone, now just 2-3 cards are good for it (5090, 4090 and maybe 5080/4080S). Im lucky enought that i have 4090 so gaming @ this resolution with native DLAA in framerates above 60 fps isnt a problem. In most demanding games with robust ray tracing im using DLSS Quality and with pathtracing DLSS Q + FG (CP2077, Alan Wake 2). I can agree that DLSS3 wasnt perfect but it was really ok @ quality 1440p to 4K. But now DLSS4 transformer is almost perfect, no ghosting, no blur, perfectly crisp and stable in motion. Even lower DLSS setting like balanced or performance are really good @4K. And about frame generation i can agree that when it came out it wasnt too good, had problems with on screen UI and with ghosting, but now its also really good when you use it properly (so base framerate is about 60 fps). Im really nitpicky when it comes to image quality and i must say that its doing fine. But still theres a room for improvement of course with FG. But DLSS4 transformer is crazy good.

I highly recommend following the channel I posted above. You seem like a passionate gamer who loves their hobby. I recommend seeing what the true cause is behind all these issues we've been facing all these years. Threat interactive describes the leading cause of all these issues.

[Quagimus Decimus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

I wish more people watched, and followed this channel https://youtu.be/NxjhtkzuH9M

Heh, i was sure that youre TI fan. Technology EVOLVE, now DLSS has new transformer model and theres no problem with blur especially with DLAA which is the best AA solution. Period. All this TI vids are about DLSS3 (which wasnt bad) and FSR 3 and lower (which is awful). Transformer model is totally different beast.

Yes, I've tooled around the transformer model on hl2 rtx, but it still remains an AI model while not addressing the main issues of TAA.

[aplikantgold]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Quagimus Decimus:

Początkowo opublikowane przez aplikantgold:

Heh, i was sure that youre TI fan. Technology EVOLVE, now DLSS has new transformer model and theres no problem with blur especially with DLAA which is the best AA solution. Period. All this TI vids are about DLSS3 (which wasnt bad) and FSR 3 and lower (which is awful). Transformer model is totally different beast.

Yes, I've tooled around the transformer model on hl2 rtx, but it still remains an AI model while not addressing the main issues of TAA.

Im not saying that hes wrong in everything, all this stuff about bad optimization is very good and needed. But hes making one big mistake. All his statements about AA are only for 1080p users where picture isnt crisp, its little blurry all the time because of low pixel count (and yes, its still blurry even if youre on small monitor like 21"). So when you use DLSS at this resolution i can imagine that it looks bad and blurry, even quality settiing is upscaling from 720p. And thats why old AA techniques are better for this kind of resolution, they are sharper and small screen with low 1080p resolution in combination with this 1080p bluriness is very good at hiding picture shimmering which happen all the time with old AA techniques. Only MSAAx8 is quite good but its very demanding and still way worse with image stability that even normal TAA.
So i like this guy, but he should clearly say that things about AA that hes saying are only valid for 1080p (max 1440p) gaming, 4K gaming is totally different thing and old AA techniques are just horibble in this case. Atomfall is perfect example.

[Lucifer Verone]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeadJericho:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lucifer Verone:

If the game runs well then you dont need up scaling. Up scaling is not a requirement for games.

upscaling is not only about performance. its about eliminating sub-pixel shimmering and cleaning up inherently messy details at distance.

which are very evident in this game when looking at foliage or distant objects.

That is just an excuse. If it runs properly on native up scaling is unnecessary. Which it should be to begin with.