Being timed out of a game is VERY frustrating

[IDKFQ]

Seriously, this is insulting, please make a turn-based timer where you only skip your turn/action and don't loose your 2h game...

[memories]

Yes, it's very frustrating. There are several existing threads already pointing this out. Even for an experienced player in a 2p game, over 60% of the "timer" time is spent on watching and waiting for animations

[weirdmen-arise]

The way they handle it is hilarious, too. The game just up and quits. At least with other games, AI would take over and you could watch the result. So, you just waste your time, basically.

[aspi]

So how about just set your games to longer times when you know you are a slow player or dont join 45min games? Explain it to me, I dont get it. I get it, the way the game handles all this is not perfect, but there is a very simple solution to that problem, just higher the timer...

Also, just focus on the game if you play it, to many times I see players being afk to do whatever or take several minutes for simple decisions and wonder if they time out.

Also, you can set the animation speed to very fast, you can set the game that it skips the confirm button and that it ends your turn automatically, which helps a lot in saving time and playing fast.

[IDKFQ]

It's not like I can choose between a lot of games in the lobby too...

Also, thanks for pointing this out, when a player goes AFK the game does not skip his/her turn, it just keeps waiting until the 45 min before bursting everything up.
After 15 min of waiting for player green's return I quit the game (I have a life) and got a karma penalty.

Again, the simple solution is to put a timer per turn, as all other games do.
Add a routine that gives your game to the AI if you skip two turns in a row and you're set.

[memories]

@aspi90 It's not about being a "slow player".

Switching off confirmation hardly helps.

Right now many players are forced to select the "2 hour" game option simply because selecting 1 hour almost always results in timeout due to the large number of animations and the timer ticking down when it should be frozen. This is an issue even at "Very Fast" animation speed.

From the midgame onwards, the number of actions per generation for a player can easily be in the range of 15-20+, sometimes even 30.

As others have already pointed out, another source of delay comes from your actions and standard projects being greyed out at the start of each turn until the animations have completed.

[aspi]

Originally posted by memories:

@aspi90 It's not about being a "slow player".

Switching off confirmation hardly helps.

Right now many players are forced to select the "2 hour" game option simply because selecting 1 hour almost always results in timeout due to the large number of animations and the timer ticking down when it should be frozen. This is an issue even at "Very Fast" animation speed.

From the midgame onwards, the number of actions per generation for a player can easily be in the range of 15-20+, sometimes even 30.

As others have already pointed out, another source of delay comes from your actions and standard projects being greyed out at the start of each turn until the animations have completed.

Imo it is about being a slow player or not and knowing it (and joining at least 1h games) or not.

I guess mainly slow due to inexperience and/or being new to the game, not focused on tha game and doing something other while playing or just being annoyingly slow.
If you are new, I wont blame you for timing out in a 45min game, I know how overwhelming my first game of TM was, but otherwise, its mostly not the games fault.
I played several hundred games and timed out like 3 times, so for me all blaming on the game is wrong.

To many times I knew after round 1, that my opponent will time out, after I saw them drafting for 6mins and taking another 5mins for turn one, for literally no reason. Nothing related to long animation times or whatever, just being slow.

[memories]

Hmm, I think it's the same for experienced players. There's a huge amount of time lost waiting for animations and actions to be available and not greyed out if you have 20+ actions per generation.

I noticed that FrankJones and others have the same sentiment. 1 hour per side is too short for a 2p game at the moment, with the only viable option right now being to play games with time control of 2 hours per side.

Sure, increasing the timer from 1 hour to 2 hours per side helps for the time being, but it's not an ideal solution. IMO, more granular time controls or more options (e.g. 1hr 30mins) are necessary to properly address this issue.

[AronFJenks]

Originally posted by memories:

Hmm, I think it's the same for experienced players. There's a huge amount of time lost waiting for animations and actions to be available and not greyed out if you have 20+ actions per generation.

I noticed that FrankJones and others have the same sentiment. 1 hour per side is too short for a 2p game at the moment, with the only viable option right now being to play games with time control of 2 hours per side.

Sure, increasing the timer from 1 hour to 2 hours per side helps for the time being, but it's not an ideal solution. IMO, more granular time controls or more options (e.g. 1hr 30mins) are necessary to properly address this issue.

I agree with "memories" and "FrankJones." A 75 minute (1h 15m) timer would be a great option. That would allow for 2p games that go 13 to 15 gens where both players have lots of blue card actions and card draws. And, it wouldn't scare away gamers who are wary of a 2h timer.

Perhaps the kind and competent developers and programmers at steam and Asmodee can implement this very useful feature?

[memories]

Originally posted by AronFJenks:

Originally posted by memories:

Hmm, I think it's the same for experienced players. There's a huge amount of time lost waiting for animations and actions to be available and not greyed out if you have 20+ actions per generation.

I noticed that FrankJones and others have the same sentiment. 1 hour per side is too short for a 2p game at the moment, with the only viable option right now being to play games with time control of 2 hours per side.

Sure, increasing the timer from 1 hour to 2 hours per side helps for the time being, but it's not an ideal solution. IMO, more granular time controls or more options (e.g. 1hr 30mins) are necessary to properly address this issue.

I agree with "memories" and "FrankJones." A 75 minute (1h 15m) timer would be a great option. That would allow for 2p games that go 13 to 15 gens where both players have lots of blue card actions and card draws. And, it wouldn't scare away gamers who are wary of a 2h timer.

Perhaps the kind and competent developers and programmers at steam and Asmodee can implement this very useful feature?

+100. There are already 2 hour, 5 hour and 10 hour options, plus several more options up to 180 hours.

Excessively long timer durations are more likely to discourage people from playing. Introducing several timer options in between 1 hour and 2 hours could help to lower the frequency of timeouts.

[hK]

I have never ever been close to been timed out in all my 45min games. Just play faster.

[memories]

@hK Sure, I believe 45min games would work for 3-4p games if some players terraform aggressively. Can't say the same for 2p games where engine-building players tend to have a lot more actions (and hence a lot more in-between round animations).

The issue isn't about "playing speed" as much as it is about waiting for animations to complete and for blue card actions / standard projects to become "available" for use. At present these are greyed out if you click immediately at the start of your turn, so you have to close the window and reopen it 2-3 seconds later.

Originally posted by hK:

I have never ever been close to been timed out in all my 45min games. Just play faster.

[[uop]KHAN]

I agree there should be a timer option for something between 1H and 2H. I would even suggest having 10 minute intervals between 1H and 2H as sometimes 1H is just not enough for some players, and they would feel much more comfortable at 70 minutes.

Also, they really should have an option in the settings to just turn off all confirmations and animations/pop-ups. If you're experienced at this game then it all is pretty routine so these things just burn your time bank and nothing else.

[AronFJenks]

Originally posted by hK:

I have never ever been close to been timed out in all my 45min games. Just play faster.

So, often when trying to play faster, it actually costs many seconds off the clock.

After a turn by either the opponent or our own turn, if we click "standard projects" or "actions" too quickly, all the options will be grayed out until we exit that menu and re-click to reopen it.

It's somewhat baffling that a human moving a mouse pointer on a screen can be ready to perform an action faster than a computer can be ready for it.

Also, regardless of whether you or anyone else can complete a 45m game without timing out, why does that mean we should all be subjected to:

1) Ridiculously long and slow animations that burn 50 to 75% of the actual clock we are allocated (even on "very fast" which isn't very fast at all),

2) A double clock penalty for all moves (since every move or action counts against the clock of the player making the move AND against the clock of the opponent who is forced to watch it, along with all the animations and effects)?

3) Why should a player with, let's say, 10 blue card actions to an opponent's zero be punished by having less time to think about his strategy? The blue card actions take forever to execute, partly because the animations are too slow (and don't need to exist at all), and partly because we have to "confirm" everything, even if there's no other option except to confirm. It's not like there's a "cancel" button next to "confirm." Suppose someone uses "security fleet" and then realizes he needs the titanium for something else. A pop-up "confirm" button appears, but no "cancel" or "back" or "undo." If we can't back out of the partially completed action, why must we waste precious seconds confirming that we are doing it? Especially if we have confirmations turned off in the settings.

4) Nearing end-game, if I know exactly which moves I'm going to do, I shouldn't forfeit on time with 10 minutes left on my clock. And yet I've had it happen, because my opponent makes so many moves, I lose 8 minutes, maybe 9, watching his endless animations and effects. Also, even if I finish the final generation with 40 seconds left on the clock, that's a forfeit loss because the clock keeps running during the entire production phase and the shift to the plant conversion stage, and during both players' plant conversions (which includes lengthy animations, including having to "confirm" an herbivore for each greenery if we have herbivores). And then, when we're finally done, and click "end turn" with nothing left to do, it asks "are you sure?" And we have to extra click THAT. WHY? Yes, I'm sure, there's literally no legal move left! And I already have confirmations DISABLED.

Come on. We deserve better than this.

[memories]

Originally posted by AronFJenks:

Originally posted by hK:

I have never ever been close to been timed out in all my 45min games. Just play faster.

So, often when trying to play faster, it actually costs many seconds off the clock.

After a turn by either the opponent or our own turn, if we click "standard projects" or "actions" too quickly, all the options will be grayed out until we exit that menu and re-click to reopen it.

It's somewhat baffling that a human moving a mouse pointer on a screen can be ready to perform an action faster than a computer can be ready for it.

Also, regardless of whether you or anyone else can complete a 45m game without timing out, why does that mean we should all be subjected to:

1) Ridiculously long and slow animations that burn 50 to 75% of the actual clock we are allocated (even on "very fast" which isn't very fast at all),

2) A double clock penalty for all moves (since every move or action counts against the clock of the player making the move AND against the clock of the opponent who is forced to watch it, along with all the animations and effects)?

3) Why should a player with, let's say, 10 blue card actions to an opponent's zero be punished by having less time to think about his strategy? The blue card actions take forever to execute, partly because the animations are too slow (and don't need to exist at all), and partly because we have to "confirm" everything, even if there's no other option except to confirm. It's not like there's a "cancel" button next to "confirm." Suppose someone uses "security fleet" and then realizes he needs the titanium for something else. A pop-up "confirm" button appears, but no "cancel" or "back" or "undo." If we can't back out of the partially completed action, why must we waste precious seconds confirming that we are doing it? Especially if we have confirmations turned off in the settings.

4) Nearing end-game, if I know exactly which moves I'm going to do, I shouldn't forfeit on time with 10 minutes left on my clock. And yet I've had it happen, because my opponent makes so many moves, I lose 8 minutes, maybe 9, watching his endless animations and effects. Also, even if I finish the final generation with 40 seconds left on the clock, that's a forfeit loss because the clock keeps running during the entire production phase and the shift to the plant conversion stage, and during both players' plant conversions (which includes lengthy animations, including having to "confirm" an herbivore for each greenery if we have herbivores). And then, when we're finally done, and click "end turn" with nothing left to do, it asks "are you sure?" And we have to extra click THAT. WHY? Yes, I'm sure, there's literally no legal move left! And I already have confirmations DISABLED.

Come on. We deserve better than this.

Word. I don't think that @hK's experience is representative of many other players, especially those who play 2p games. You can tell from the multiple existing threads about the timer issues. I'm sure that many of us would appreciate support for 1hr 15min and 1hr 30min options as an interim measure.

[memories]

So I ended a game with 3 seconds today, and learnt that the timer continues running even AFTER both players' final plant conversion phase. Notwithstanding that watching your opponent's greenery placement animations also takes time off your clock.

It's perfectly fine to have an extra "X Player's Turn" animation after the plant conversion phase, and another animation for "The Game Is Over", but why do both of these eat up the remaining time on the clock?

The above two animations still drain about 30 seconds even at "Very Fast" animation speed, and this is when the game should already have ended...