$25 + no drafting???

[TheronGodspeed]

I'll wait.

But seriously, why would you release an incomplete game? Did the preference for drafting never come up during the Betas? I would find that VERY hard to believe.

Poor decision, devs... I just went from "shut up and take my money" to "hard pass."

[jedite21]

TheronGodspeed の投稿を引用：

Seriously, I don't know a single TM player who plays WITHOUT the drafting. I'm sure they exist, but I've never seen a single game of TM played at my FLGS without drafting.

It may officially be a "variant," but I sincerely doubt most of the people who are/were going to buy it here on Steam see Drafting as optional.

FWIW, I have already purchased my own physical copy, all of the expansions, and I have (of course) sleeved my cards and purchased the much-needed plastic overlays to stop the cubes from getting messed up on the player board. I've logged over 100 plays of this game.

It's awesome! I love it. And, I'm willing to buy it again on this format. And, I imagine there are many out there like me...They already own it. They are willing to buy it AGAIN. They just want the COMPLETE game.

Then wait till the variant is implemented to purchase it. They already said they are going to add it because of feedback from the last beta. I'm glad I don't have to wait for them to do the testing to play it though because I want to play with people I can't physically play with. I do agree that drafting is very important for the game though.

[DrRabbits]

People and their drafting. Played with drafting exactly once. Made a long game almost an hour longer. It's not that big of a deal

[drengy]

Agreed about drafting. It should definitely be an option, and I'm glad they're adding it in December, but it's not an option I play with. TM is already a long game, and adding drafting pushes it beyond the amount of time I'm willing to devote. No drafting means you have to be more nimble with your strategy, it doesn't make the game unplayable.

[hK]

I honestly do not understand why so many guys have such bad blood. They have stated that they will implement draft on early december... so why the Christ would you buy the game and then leave a negative review for not having draft??????

Come on guys

[Arancil]

DrRabbits の投稿を引用：

People and their drafting. Played with drafting exactly once. Made a long game almost an hour longer. It's not that big of a deal

It made it that much longer because you and your group are very slow players. Introduce a timer to your sessions instead of blaming the game.

[GA01]

Urisk の投稿を引用：

Yea, I feel like Asmodee Digital is pushing it right now ... trying to gauge how far they can go.
August: Pandemic for 10 EUR
September: Scythe for 20 EUR
October: Terraforming Mars for 23 EUR

I still bought Scythe, but that was the highest I was willing to pay for a board game adaption.

Hard to tell how Asmodee will react, but I reckon if this one sells well the next digital version of one of their board games will be around 30 US$ / 28 EUR.

I agree with this. Asmodee is consistently raising the price of their games in an attempt to find out what the market will bear. Like this person I bought Scythe but that was my upper limit for what I'm willing to pay for a board game adaption.

[DrRabbits]

Arancil の投稿を引用：

DrRabbits の投稿を引用：

People and their drafting. Played with drafting exactly once. Made a long game almost an hour longer. It's not that big of a deal

It made it that much longer because you and your group are very slow players. Introduce a timer to your sessions instead of blaming the game.

Or, you could not dedicate a ton of time learning every individual card and play more games in an evening without the draft. We play it maybe 2-3 times a year. Re-learning the rules each time. Drafting might be fun if you play it a lot, but a lot of engine-builders work just fine without. Not to say having the option isn't nice. But to dismiss a game for not having a variant seems a little entitled. Especially since it will be added later.

TL;dr I'll play however i damn well please

[ASMR gaming]

ive put it on watchlist and ill wait for 50% off at the xmas sales

[BogJuan]

I agree that drafting slows down the game. Especially that you always have that one person that thinks for a bit longer than the others. However, I do think it is much more luck based on who wins with experienced players when not drafting.

[Bear]

I'm glad to learn that they're planning to implement drafting. For those describing drafting as an optional variant, it's the way the game was designed to be played by invested board gamers and makes play decisions significantly more meaningful. It (along with the Corporate Era cards) are left out of the "default" beginner ruleset so as not to overwhelm and intimidate new players. They are, however, included in the base game (the box you buy without expansions).

It's perfectly fine to enjoy the game without the draft, but keep in mind that the draft is one of the only ways you get to regularly and meaningfully interact with other players. The draft stage adds relative value judgement (how does taking these cards help me, vs how much will denying my opponent this card be beneficial to my victory?). So yes, enfranchised players who play a lot of the game feel strongly about the main mechanic that is one of the only ways to ensure opponents don't go out of control from lucky draws, and that you don't get wasted generations through a dead hand.

My table usually plays the game in about 2 hours with drafting (plus house rules for drafting corporations and starting cards), but even if it pushed the game to 3 hours, I'd choose it every time. For me, it makes the difference between taking whatever you get, and having a serious strategic competition between the other players.

So in summary, go ahead and play without drafting if that's the most fun for your group for whatever reason, but try to understand how totally different the game plays with such a minor rules change, and understand why that difference is so meaningful to so many players who are deeply invested in the game.

[fwduewer]

I prefer drafting, but suspect that the game is better balanced without it. (Card draw is pretty bad with drafting, usually.)

[ROB AF]

ThePymonster の投稿を引用：

(And in the other thread about drafting, people are asking about all sorts of things which aren't in the rulebook, some of which the designer explicitly doesn't recommend, eg drafting of starting hands)

When I read this, I stood up immediately and ran in to the other room to grab my rulebook for TM to prove you wrong. I would have actually bet money that the variant for drafting your starting hand was in the rulebook, but it isn't. I'm going to head over to BGG to research this one further. Thanks for pointing it out.

ThePymonster の投稿を引用：

(Finally: are you sure drafting makes a better game? I've enjoyed both variants in tabletop and certainly you have to pick opponents carefully if you don't want drafting to almost double the game length. I can imagine it'll be even worse online, you'll make an obvious pick from four cards and then wait a long time for your opponent.)

I'm on the fence about whether the play of the game other than the drafting is improved or not. What I can tell you is that people enjoy the process of drafting. Games are all about interesting decisions, and whether the decision is illusory or not , I enjoy the process of drafting the cards. Do I Hate draft? Do I take one hoping to get another card back? It gives me some interesting choices to make and those choices are again re-evaluated when I have my final hand.

I'm glad they're adding in drafting, but I still think $25 is way too much for this game. TTA is a game of similar complexity, and it retails on Steam for fully 10 USD less (15 USD). Most board games are even less than that. Asmodee Digital is in for a rude surprise if this price point persists.

[Caxton]

TheronGodspeed の投稿を引用：

Seriously, I don't know a single TM player who plays WITHOUT the drafting. I'm sure they exist, but I've never seen a single game of TM played at my FLGS without drafting.

It may officially be a "variant," but I sincerely doubt most of the people who are/were going to buy it here on Steam see Drafting as optional.

FWIW, I have already purchased my own physical copy, all of the expansions, and I have (of course) sleeved my cards and purchased the much-needed plastic overlays to stop the cubes from getting messed up on the player board. I've logged over 100 plays of this game.

It's awesome! I love it. And, I'm willing to buy it again on this format. And, I imagine there are many out there like me...They already own it. They are willing to buy it AGAIN. They just want the COMPLETE game.

I also have over 100 plays and not a single one of them was a draft. Draft is just boring, drags the game out and not one person I play with thinks drafting cards is worth it. It is a variant that is not expected to be played as the base game. So get over yourself and quit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about something that is not even meant to be the main way you play the game.

[ROB AF]

Caxton の投稿を引用：

I also have over 100 plays and not a single one of them was a draft.

Draft is just boring, drags the game out and not one person I play with thinks drafting cards is worth it.

So, you've never done it, but you know it would be boring and not worth it.

Cool story bro.

[Kahlraxin]

hK の投稿を引用：

I honestly do not understand why so many guys have such bad blood. They have stated that they will implement draft on early december... so why the Christ would you buy the game and then leave a negative review for not having draft??????

Come on guys

Because, if the game isn't done, it should be listed as early access.