Are prisms worthwhile over lasers?

[500KG]

So I have a gun ship of about 20 lasers, does pretty well.
Prisms are the next stage up but they look kinda complex, weak and not very versatile (no directional firing), are they worth it?

[Yaddah]

tl;dr:
Aimable Ions are not worth it. They are bad at kiting and deal similar damage. Ions are better as a spinal weapon at close range, than a replacement for lasers. But, they're cool.

Long version:
That is actually a good question, since the Ion range nerf. Lasers have pretty much the same range and can be inherently aimed. Using prisms to redirect Ion Beams is more complicated, harder to defend and bears an explosion risk you need to deal with. The upside of using them is the hit-scan nature of beams and a potential damage increase. Though, the damage increase is questionable. Not only do Ions lose 30% of their damage at max range, resulting in 1750dps while heavy lasers do 1500dps (or was it 1600?), but because of the way Ion dmg is calculated they suffer from overkill damage (if 3 ticks of ion damage would kill an armor block with 1hp left, the remaining damage is lost). Meaning the effective damage of Ions and Heavy Lasers might be all but the exact same. Only at close range do Ions deal significantly increased damage compared to lasers and in that case you don't have to bother with aimable prisms and just use them as a spinal weapon.

So I guess that leaves whether or not the hit-scan and the 40m range increase is worth it. Hit-scan effectively acts as a damage increase, because it means that your shots almost always hit the intended target, allowing you to drill a hole into enemy armor much more effectively. Hit-scan also means that you hit your target more reliably at long range, where projectile weapons tend to spread their damage more.

Finally lets look at the 40m range difference. As someone who's built almost nothing but EuroSpace Ion Kites, I'd say there is a reason why I keep making them. Though part of that reason is just plain aesthetics. Ion Beams at long range are cool. No ifs & buts about it. But are they effective? I can make an Ion Kite that can reliably stay out of range of 95% of built-in ships with close range weaponry. But often pure heavy laser boats will be able to shoot back, although their damage is often spread out and not really a threat. So yes, Ion Beams have kiting potential, especially vs cannons and nukes, which lasers cannot outrange as reliably, but it requires investing in heavy reverse- AND forward thrust, since you need to be able to catch Rail- & Missile kites. That is difficult to do and ultimately just a needless money-sink that you can avoid by just using missiles or rails. Ion Kites are a thing, but they're not great kites all things considered.

Fazit: Are Ions worth it? No. If you don't have in-depth knowledge of how to get the most out of your budget, you likely won't be able to build an effective Ion kite and you're better off using heavy lasers. Even damage wise you're not losing much, unless you fight at max range, at which point there are probably better weapons than heavy lasers or ions that suit your playstyle.
...BUT, they're tragically the coolest weapon in the game, so I'll keep using them.

[Techsuport]

You can do things like have 16 ion beams combining into one, so you have only 1 gun port you have to protect, or have armor in front and shoot the beam out the side of your ship and redirect it forwards with the prisms.

Decent for kiting since you apply damage instantly if your aimed right, tho there is a small spin up time before firing, if you cant break their tank kiting, you can switch to flanking to get behind them and drill through the soft parts up close where it has better damage.

Lasers are good for when you need to aim fast and do burst damage from smaller ship builds, since they turn the turret well, and have a wide firing arc. Like you probably have seen, they can fire off all turrets instantly when a target is in range, Ions aren't that responsive, but can keep up higher damage when you make a bigger ship that focuses on them; against larger ships you don't need the that responsiveness most of the time.

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Techsuport:

You can do things like have 16 ion beams combining into one, so you have only 1 gun port you have to protect

Yes, but doing so severely reduces your damage output compared to the money you spend. For that money you could instead just invest in more lasers and shields to achieve a similar effect and maybe even save money doing it.

Originally posted by Techsuport:

you can switch to flanking to get behind them and drill through the soft parts up close where it has better damage.

You can do that with lasers just as well, if not better, since you don't need a complicated setup to be able to orbit. The question is what can you do with aimable Ions that you cannot do with heavy lasers?

Originally posted by Techsuport:

Lasers are good for when you need to aim fast and do burst damage from smaller ship builds, since they turn the turret well, and have a wide firing arc. Like you probably have seen, they can fire off all turrets instantly when a target is in range, Ions aren't that responsive, but can keep up higher damage when you make a bigger ship that focuses on them; against larger ships you don't need the that responsiveness most of the time.

But are they really higher damage? At max range Ions do 1750dps while Heavy Lasers do 1600dps. Ánd those 1750dps are further reduced for every prism combination you have, while the setup becomes more expensive. Per $ ions may actually be less damage efficient.

[Andran]

Ions win since if you have a close-range ship your front needs to be covered with point defense or flak. You don't have the space for lasers. With prisms you can bury your offensive weapons deep within your ship and your front is still free. Dps doesn't really matter if you can't avoid damage from missiles.

[CellNav]

Interesting thing about the Prism ... Don't shoot an enemy Prism with your ION beam :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2904708635
Has anybody covered ION defense by having a "diamond tip" ship?

If the enemy wants to drill the center of your tootsie pop, then right back at him !!!

[CellNav]

DPS comparison between lasers and the ION might look the same on paper against a static target, but the ION wins by maintaining precise targeting against a moving target, just as long as you don't exceed the prism's rotation speed.

Adding more lasers requires more crew and adds more weight which needs more power which requires more crew which adds more weight (and the domino falls). If a player is using the maximum crew game option then of course, crew isn't a problem ... :P ... Load 'em up boys, we stomped a mole.

Off topic (apologies) .... Laser's need to be little sloppy like the cannon (like +/- 0.5 degrees). No need to have a crew member if the computer is doing all the work, might as well be automated without any human slop (i.e. point defense). ... IMO.

[Bobucles]

Lasers occupy valuable surface space, ions add firepower to otherwise empty internal space. Ions also push reactors towards the cozy core of the ship, lasers force reactors to stay near the skin in a bad way.

Ions are still decent for keeping hard armored shells without sacrificing too much firepower. The range nerf hits them heavy and they're much more of a brawler instead of an invincible kiting doom beam.

[amimai002]

its worth mentioning that late game flack can shoot down laser bolts, so some late game boats literally no-sell your laser weaponry

[Techsuport]

Originally posted by Yaddah:

Originally posted by Techsuport:

You can do things like have 16 ion beams combining into one, so you have only 1 gun port you have to protect

Yes, but doing so severely reduces your damage output compared to the money you spend. For that money you could instead just invest in more lasers and shields to achieve a similar effect and maybe even save money doing it.

Originally posted by Techsuport:

you can switch to flanking to get behind them and drill through the soft parts up close where it has better damage.

You can do that with lasers just as well, if not better, since you don't need a complicated setup to be able to orbit. The question is what can you do with aimable Ions that you cannot do with heavy lasers?

Originally posted by Techsuport:

Lasers are good for when you need to aim fast and do burst damage from smaller ship builds, since they turn the turret well, and have a wide firing arc. Like you probably have seen, they can fire off all turrets instantly when a target is in range, Ions aren't that responsive, but can keep up higher damage when you make a bigger ship that focuses on them; against larger ships you don't need the that responsiveness most of the time.

But are they really higher damage? At max range Ions do 1750dps while Heavy Lasers do 1600dps. Ánd those 1750dps are further reduced for every prism combination you have, while the setup becomes more expensive. Per $ ions may actually be less damage efficient.

Money Doesn't Matter
At about midway through the content, money isn't the limiting factor, and if you build an ion ship with a similar layout to a laser ship then yeah, lasers would be cheaper, but you wouldn't be taking full advantage of ion build in terms of resource distribution efficiency vs defensive layering, as lasers have to be on the outside.

Flanking
ion build focused on dps is generally massive, and not suited for flanking unless you also invest in the engines to move all that mas, witch can also leave holes in armor, thus more vulnerability. So i would advise smaller ships focusing on flanking to use lasers, or only a few spinal ions for close range drilling.
What ions can do that lasers cant, is shoot farther. I mentioned closing distance with Ions and flanking for when your out ranged, or cant get away; then close distance so you get higher damage up close.

Higher Damage?
again, money is not the issue. A side that has lasers will have less defenses because the lasers have to be on the outside, ions can have huge chunks of armor and only have to worry about 1 gun-port to shield. So its damage output per effective defenses that matters, not DPS per $.