AI Ships

[Xaverok]

How are AI ships able to spin around with 1 forward thrusting engine that isnt actually firing faster than my own ships with 4 thrusters firing in a strafing motion, I am seeing this alot with the AI especially early on in career that its practically impossible to shot it anywhere other than the front unless it decides to target a ship that is 30 seconds away and starts flying away from you.

Is it pointless to invest in strafing engines when the AI can floating in circles just as fast as your multiple engines? Loving the game so far though

[CptnRedstone]

So, all thrusters have a hidden mechanic where they can apply a very small amount of side or retrothrust, that way it's harder for ships to get completely and totally stuck on an asteroid of each other if thrust is slightly damaged. This is usually barely noticeable, with the exception of very small ships being able to use that small amount of thrust to turn due to their low weight. It's weird, but kinda makes sense...? I've heard a bunch of people complaining about this, maybe small thrusters should be excluded from this rule?

[Xaverok]

Interesting, it was strange but extremely annoying, I tried it over a number of different ships, taking out their weapons then all but 1 thruster and no matter what they always remained forward facing to me, the majority were standard thrusters.

I even had one where I took out all the thrusters and left the weapons and it still somehow managed to keep forward facing and turning at the same speed as multiple thrusters on my pretty much Model - S starting ship that had upgrades of 2 more standard thrusters for strafing and the 2nd smallest storage bays, I had to take a break at that point because my mind was blown that a ship with no thrusters was able to out turn my slightly upgraded ship lol

[CptnRedstone]

Ships maneuvering without any thrusters sounds like either a bug, or a mod. Iirc the example mod gives control rooms a slight amount of omnidirectional thrust, if you have that enabled it's probably the culprit. If this happened in vanilla, please upload a save file here using a file sharing site, or through the ingame feedback tool (F11).

[umop-apisdn]

I have seen the same behavior; it feels like there is some movement code in the AI that fails to take into account the ship's actual thruster count.

[CptnRedstone]

There's nothing in the AI itself that should allow a ship to move when it wouldn't be allowed to move when player controlled. Again, if anyone can upload a save file of this happening, it would be very helpful.

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by CptnRedstone:

There's nothing in the AI itself that should allow a ship to move when it wouldn't be allowed to move when player controlled. Again, if anyone can upload a save file of this happening, it would be very helpful.

It doesn't require a save file. Just fire up the game with no mods, build a ship with shields (so you can ignore enemy weapons while doing this), and go peel all but one thruster off a bad guy... then watch him rotate to follow your movements anyway.

[CptnRedstone]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by CptnRedstone:

There's nothing in the AI itself that should allow a ship to move when it wouldn't be allowed to move when player controlled. Again, if anyone can upload a save file of this happening, it would be very helpful.

It doesn't require a save file. Just fire up the game with no mods, build a ship with shields (so you can ignore enemy weapons while doing this), and go peel all but one thruster off a bad guy... then watch him rotate to follow your movements anyway.

I'm specifically talking about ships with *no* thrusters left like the OP mentioned. Having one thruster left and still being able to turn is still weird, but the cause is known at least.

[Xaverok]

Can confirm I am using no mods however I delete saves I am no longer playing so unable to provide that, about to start up a new career and whilst I wont be actively trying to replicate if I notice it happening again I will keep the save file for reference.

I am not confident enough with my game knowledge/ability to use mods at this time haha

[Xaverok]

Ok so just uploaded a save file with the ingame send feedback, the first ship I encountered in the game, took out the weapons and 2 engines, it has 2 standard thrusters left on the back of the ship, I just spent 10 minutes trying to flank around the ship, neither of its thrusters are firing up but it at no stage am I able to flank the ship. A random pirate that just happened to be near the starting base and less than 2 minutes into the actual save before encountering this issue again.

The ship doesnt move and as I say the thrusters do not fire up it just stays in spot and spins so it is 100% of the time forward facing my ship so I am unable to take out the back 2 thrusters nor am I am able to get a clear shot on the cockpit, it is almost like the game is forcing me to blow up its reactor, I am playing on all the hardest difficulty settings for combat, economy and crew and whilst I 100% believe this is a bug I cant help but think this is something built in to the difficulty setting to stop me from getting the maximum amount of salvage but I am seeing this on every single play through at present.

[Xaverok]

The enemy AI seems to need some work on its targetting as well, save 2, went to the first asteroid location, I destroy all 4 point defence weapons on the enemy ship, the enemy ship proceeds to turn and start flying off in another direction, then 3 seconds later a grey dot appears on my map (this happens alot as well, the AI seems to know about other ships in the area before you do), but it starts flying off forward facing this new ship with no weapons. Lucky after a reload I managed to take out a thruster before the new ship engages and promptly blows up all my salvage but it begs the question, your dead in the water why would you then choose to go and engage another ship.....

[Xaverok]

And another new save uploaded with the exact same issue, I need to take a break from this game as this issue annoys the hell out of me, until tomorrow friends!

[KishiPhio]

Yeah I've already said this but nobody picked up on it.
AI ships can and will turn even if they do not have any thrusters.
It makes any kind of killing engines mechanic first completely useless, you can't ever get behind a ship if it's targetting you.

[CptnRedstone]

Originally posted by KagamiFR:

Yeah I've already said this but nobody picked up on it.
AI ships can and will turn even if they do not have any thrusters.
It makes any kind of killing engines mechanic first completely useless, you can't ever get behind a ship if it's targetting you.

Ships shouldn't ever be able to turn without thrusters without mods. Please upload a save as discussed previously.

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by CptnRedstone:

Originally posted by KagamiFR:

Yeah I've already said this but nobody picked up on it.
AI ships can and will turn even if they do not have any thrusters.
It makes any kind of killing engines mechanic first completely useless, you can't ever get behind a ship if it's targetting you.

Ships shouldn't ever be able to turn without thrusters without mods. Please upload a save as discussed previously.

Really not trying to be rude, here, but...
Please start a new game, strip the thrusters off of an enemy ship, and notice that its nose still points directly at your ship at all times until you strip off the weapons, kill the control room, or destroy its reactor.

A save file is irrelevant; this is demonstrable in-game behavior that can be seen in less than 120 seconds from the start of a new game (RNG permitting); any new game.

[CptnRedstone]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Really not trying to be rude, here, but...
Please start a new game, strip the thrusters off of an enemy ship, and notice that its nose still points directly at your ship at all times until you strip off the weapons, kill the control room, or destroy its reactor.

A save file is irrelevant; this is demonstrable in-game behavior that can be seen in less than 120 seconds from the start of a new game (RNG permitting); any new game.

So, to test this I just now started a new career mode game, and used developer mode to turn off all of the thrusters on the first opponent I ran into. Said opponent is now completely dead in the water, unable to maneuver, move, or turn in any way, but is otherwise still fully functional. I am completely and totally unable to reproduce ships moving or turning without thrusters, and should have noticed this happening a very long time ago if it's always this easy to reproduce, hence me asking repeatedly for a save file.