ion lasers OP?

[Condoriano]

Hey guys ive just spent some hours testing all the different weapons and i must say that nothing comes close to a big ion laser array

ive been very disappointed with the rail gun, even if you build an extra long one, it wont do enough damage, if you face a big ship

same goes for nukes, they arent effective against big ships with extra armor

their dmg output should be boosted, because
1. they need extra storage for the ammo
2. they need ammo reloaders
3. rail guns also need electricity chargers/nukes are rare or take ressources and buildings to build

but if you have an array of ion lasers, you get tons of damage and all you need, is to charge its electricity

imo the railgun and nukes need to be boosted, or new types of weapons need to be introduced

[WillieSea]

There is always "end game weaponry". Having a dozen or more ion weapons firing into a single crystal is something you have to build up to. At least in career mode.

Although, I always felt the nukes were way underpowered for their cost, slow speed, lack of directional turning, and short range. So many negatives and so few positives, especially on the explosion. If it makes it past the PD of the enemy.

And the railgun, it needs bigger boosts when you add more extensions, more than it is currently getting. It reloads sooooo slow and you have to aim it with your ship.

[amimai002]

lol ion beams are good, but they are expensive in terms of crew and power, they also have no alpha strike ability. They need a dedicated crew of 6 to run.

they are also low HP and vulnerable to emp.

only thing going for them is range and sustained DPS/area really...

[Bobucles]

Ions have big diminishing returns with ship growth. Using independent beams will tear open a huge hole in your ship, but merging beams together will cripple their damage. I also tend to have issues with AI engagement, the ship struggles to auto engage or tractor enemies in any useful way.

My only real complaint about missile launchers is the factories use raw ore instead of processed steel/coils/rods. This severely cripples crew logistics as they can only haul solo ore, instead of bundles of steel/coils. Raw ore is also far more difficult to find, and stacks poorly compared to the abundant steel/coil loot from dead ships. Ammo loading is already a huge bucket brigade, so it'd be nice to see a logistic buff for them.

[WillieSea]

Missile launchers do not use raw ores, the factories do. You can set aside cargo hold space for completed missile parts and use them to fill your launchers. Factories would be way too slow to keep up with demand.

[amimai002]

its also worth saying that nukes are amazing for brawlers. my design usually have all "spare" crew that would be loading ammo sitting on nukes when idle. so when the ship flys into range it drops 6-18 nukes and then all the crew that were running the now empty launchers run off to feed the guns to mop up whats left.

usually there isn't much left after the nukes hit...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2884739403

[lalelunatic]

anyone ever tried to do it with some "broadside romantics" with the nukes? i mean their range sucks, yes, but if you put them on a faster ship, broadside, and do an "atomic flyby"?

no clue if this works with the fireing speed of the nukes vs the spin speed of the target... but i would imagine nuke missiles more as torpedos than missiles... just some thought though.

[Bobucles]

I dislike that ion prisms don't let you set an idle diagonal position. Diagonal ships suffer because fixed prisms have a miserable time engaging, but automatic prisms always start 45 degrees out of alignment.

[lalelunatic]

uhm, once you set a target line for them, they stay that way unless they lose power/operators dont they? as far as i can see in testing my ships, they stay on target, unless i redo something that overrides anything touching them.

[Bobucles]

Originally posted by lalelunatic:

uhm, once you set a target line for them, they stay that way unless they lose power/operators dont they? as far as i can see in testing my ships, they stay on target, unless i redo something that overrides anything touching them.

Setting hard lines will give prisms a fixed direction. However, the AI on them is very flaky. They'll almost never actually open fire, because they're never pointing exactly where they want to shoot.

Prisms without a fixed direction will track targets, giving them much more opportunity to actually shoot, even down a narrow barrel. However, prisms can only idle in a 90 degree pose, so they will never idle pointing down a diagonal gun.

[lalelunatic]

uhm, your doing it wrong then sorry:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2886073368

pause button isnt pressed, so game is running. by looking at the other modules you can confirm that its a diagonal ship facing right. and the 7 prisms in the center face down the diagonal tunnel while time is running. they got a target set along the tunnel and have energy and operators at the guns.

either i misunderstand your concept of "idle" or somethings fishy here =).

[Bobucles]

they got a target set along the tunnel and have energy and operators at the guns.

Yes, and you'll notice the most important part of that setup that's off:
They aren't shooting.
Fixed location prisms can't do the micro adjustments they need for their guns to open fire automatically. They can shoot if you micro the prisms themselves, however this is messy UI wise.

[lalelunatic]

they arent shooting because there is no target =). thats the point of "idle" for me... really, i got no clue whats the problem here, as it works for me just fine. really no offense, i just try to understand the issue at hand.

if you wanna switch them to "idle fire" just activate "endless fireing", but then again, thats not idle... rather than active...

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by WillieSea:

There is always "end game weaponry". Having a dozen or more ion weapons firing into a single crystal is something you have to build up to. At least in career mode.

Although, I always felt the nukes were way underpowered for their cost, slow speed, lack of directional turning, and short range. So many negatives and so few positives, especially on the explosion. If it makes it past the PD of the enemy.

And the railgun, it needs bigger boosts when you add more extensions, more than it is currently getting. It reloads sooooo slow and you have to aim it with your ship.

and actually nukes wouldn't work in space, like 99.xxx% of a nukes devastation comes from the fact that there is air/oxygen to burn/split helion particles (long time since i read up on why; but in short nukes does the same +- as any projectile weapon of its weight in space; the explosion can't go further than what's in the bomb which is ONLY enough to "ignited" the air and created the fusion process; remove the air around it and you got a very fancy and expensive MOA ^^

while LASERS are EXCEPTIONALLY effective in space; the lack of anything which will deter/change/deminish a lasers effect makes them way more powerful and the fact a laser doesn't technically have a "max output", ofc those we make will have a max; but if the material could hold we could shoot with the combined power of a sun in a single shot.
meaning potential max dmg on a laser would be like a deathstar (from starwars, bc you all know what it is).

the same comes with plasma or energy powered shield, plasma has a hard limit but it will effectively slow down and melt projectiles, while energy based shields will only slow it down if the magnetic field can have an effect on it (it need to be magneted) else it will simply melt/burn the material and now you have a flying blob of melted material comming at very high speed (in some cases this could do more dmg than just the projectile blowing through one spot).
but energy based shields like lasers doesn't have an actual opper max, its depending on how much power you can press into the shield and disabling it would require either hardbreaking the limit, in which case you already lost without a fight if the power difference is this big, or drain down the shield power resource until it turns off;, which coincidentally works super well for game setups and no one fking utilize it right ^^;
^^
..
lastly railguns would be ridiculessly powerful as well, and absolutely BANNED by all space nations, as it is energy based again so max is a question of how much magnetic pressure the material can take before it turns liquid; the speed in space would keep accellerating as well comming to speeds that could created world ending effects when hitting a planet;
the trajectory would never change and speed always increase at a ridiculess rated; and you can see now WHY with 0 control over it when you miss that these weapons would be absolutely 100% banned from use by all nations as the consequences of using them could wrack havoc on stuff far away it shouldn't etc.

^^

would just be cool if there was put a little effort into these things and reasoning ingames etc. with it could created a very interesting and living world ^^
like use railgun, be a lot more effective but a criminal to all civilized nations etc.

[WillieSea]

You are wrong about nukes in space. An atmosphere would create a shock wave. A nuke going off does not need oxygen or an atmosphere to cause the damage, it is the heat of the nuclear materials that causes the damage. Something hotter than the surface of the sun hitting your ship is going to cause a lot of damage.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by WillieSea:

You are wrong about nukes in space. An atmosphere would create a shock wave. A nuke going off does not need oxygen or an atmosphere to cause the damage, it is the heat of the nuclear materials that causes the damage. Something hotter than the surface of the sun hitting your ship is going to cause a lot of damage.

but most of a nukes power comes from blast wave and heatwave;
without air you haver no blast wave, it would fiss out before its worth mentioning.
without air you have no way to have a heatwave move; so no heatwave.
without air you cannot created the hydrogen fusion/fission chainreaction? which is a A-bomb (so long ago my terminologi is terrible but i hope you forgive me for not looking it up^^ ).
without this chain reaction the heatwave are minimal and shockwave no bigger than a MOA.

so how would the nuke do any dmg in space? i could be wrong, but i remember using quite some time for PnP (roleplay) to research it as it was a discussion and i as GM needed to make a call :P