Solved: VR Treadmill support

[gamemylifeaway]

So, i have a vue 800 treadmill and an oldshool virtuix treadmill. i have been tearing my hair out figuring out how to play any decent games on these. Finally i used open vr walk in place and it worked with fallout and all my favorite games, I was so excited! and then, 4 minutes into playing, the headset started freezing every couple of minutes. Needless to say, it was OpenVR walk in place. when i disable it, it the headset doesn't freeze.

So I bought Natural locomotion, and, of course, it also does not work. If i lift my feet real high, then step forward then it works, but it just defeats the purpose of having a treadmill.

why does it not work when i step forward and up? Is there any way the developers could add treadmill support?

Anyone that ever bought a virtuix omni or vue 800 would be very greatful to you if you could change up the XYZ algorithm to accomodate the type of step you would make on a treadmill, which is sort of a bowl you slide around in.

I just don't understand why when i lift my feet up as much as i would if i was to step forward and up, my character walks, but if i put my foot forward and up as in walking up a slippery slope/bowl, it does not work. It is like it was specifically programmed to not walk around while.. walking. i get that, i guess the developers wanted you to be able to walk around the room (actually walking) and not trigger the natlo locomotion, and they programmed the locomotion to work striclty when the foot is going up and down.. I just wish they would drop they other axis restriction, and allow the locomotion to work wether you are simply lifting your feet, or moving them up and forward as on a treadmill bowl.

I would buy 10 copies of this software if it meant it could work with a treadmill.

Any words from developers? I heard on some forum reply that they plan on looking into it in the future.

I have multiple treadmills, and would buy multiple copies, as well as promote your software to any treadmill owners i know if the developers would just do that.

I know that might be too much to ask, but using a treadmill properly has been like a unicorn i have been chasing for 4 months. and nothing ever works.

I would refund the software, but its only $10, so i guess i will not refund, as an encouragement to developers to hear my plight.

PLEASE SAVE ME, and my vrcade.

Thanks

EDIT: As per Myou Cat's advice, i turned off the room scale filter and it works perfect now,

Thank you Natural Locomotion Team! I'm about to let the internet know about the solution to treadmill problem!

[Marco Balletta]

I would love to see this treadmill support inplemented also for nalo with the kat vr. I was thinking the same. Using kat vr mini 's base to walk using nalo and vive ttrackers. If we can please get support from nalo on the vive trackers that would resemble a walking movement more than a lifting vertically the feet.

Thbak you so so much!

[Myou cat]

Did you try disabling the room scale filter? That disables walking with trackers when there's horizontal movement, and you don't want that in a threadmill/slidemill. We haven't tried ourselves, so we don't know if it works with the filter disabled, but it's worth a try.

[gamemylifeaway]

Originally posted by Myou cat:

Did you try disabling the room scale filter? That disables walking with trackers when there's horizontal movement, and you don't want that in a threadmill/slidemill. We haven't tried ourselves, so we don't know if it works with the filter disabled, but it's worth a try.

Thank you, thank you THANK YOU. you have no idea.. it works perfect now!!

[syberspider]

Originally posted by gamemylifeaway:

Thank you, thank you THANK YOU. you have no idea.. it works perfect now!!

I was thinking of a DIY "slidemill", good to see that this is working so well. Is this an "arm suspended tether" or a "waist ring"(not sure how these are defined)?

[gamemylifeaway]

Originally posted by syberspider:

Originally posted by gamemylifeaway:

Thank you, thank you THANK YOU. you have no idea.. it works perfect now!!

I was thinking of a DIY "slidemill", good to see that this is working so well. Is this an "arm suspended tether" or a "waist ring"(not sure how these are defined)?

Well, so far it works excellent on the VUE 800 treadmill, I have yet to test it with a virtuix Omni, just look those up on google to answer your questions as to how they suspend you.

[Marco Balletta]

Can you please share a video or the walking on the treadmill with trackers ?

[gamemylifeaway]

Originally posted by marco_balletta:

Can you please share a video or the walking on the treadmill with trackers ?

I will in the next 2 days.

[Marco Balletta]

Originally posted by gamemylifeaway:

Originally posted by marco_balletta:

Can you please share a video or the walking on the treadmill with trackers ?

I will in the next 2 days.

Thank you so much!

[thefrozencity]

what is the advantage of use with vr treadmill?

[Dan.B]

Originally posted by gamemylifeaway:

Originally posted by marco_balletta:

Can you please share a video or the walking on the treadmill with trackers ?

I will in the next 2 days.

Hi, Did you get this to work for you and also do you have the video? thanks D

[$chlOmO]

So I have a Katwalk Mini and I got it two work flawlessly here is what I did:

Gear:
2 Vive Trackers (1 on each ankle)
Get the proper shoes for your slidemill, with which you can actually use it fully
1 Katwalk Mini
1 Copy of NaLo

1st: Set up your Steam VR as "standing in place" while you are standing in your treadmill. Set the floor level to the center of your treadmill.

2nd: Link up your Vive trackers and other VR gear in steam VR.

3rd: Start NaLo and use "Trackers on Feet".

4th: In the settings, you want to set it to "Seated Mode", so that it recognizes forward and backwards motions as movement inputs, but make sure its set to "without rotation" and deactivate roomscale mode.

5th: Hit Run game and it should recognize your sliding inputs in the Treadmill as proper movement inputs. You can now fine adjust the settings etc. Good Luck.

I am currently playing HLA and already pretty far into the game. Works pretty well.

[Dan.B]

Originally posted by $chlOmO:

So I have a Katwalk Mini and I got it two work flawlessly here is what I did:

Gear:
2 Vive Trackers (1 on each ankle)
Get the proper shoes for your slidemill, with which you can actually use it fully
1 Katwalk Mini
1 Copy of NaLo

1st: Set up your Steam VR as "standing in place" while you are standing in your treadmill. Set the floor level to the center of your treadmill.

2nd: Link up your Vive trackers and other VR gear in steam VR.

3rd: Start NaLo and use "Trackers on Feet".

4th: In the settings, you want to set it to "Seated Mode", so that it recognizes forward and backwards motions as movement inputs, but make sure its set to "without rotation" and deactivate roomscale mode.

5th: Hit Run game and it should recognize your sliding inputs in the Treadmill as proper movement inputs. You can now fine adjust the settings etc. Good Luck.

I am currently playing HLA and already pretty far into the game. Works pretty well.

Hi $chlOmO

Thanks for the details. Great to see you are able to use the NaLo software in your VR treadmill setup.

So just to clarify in this instance the Kat walk mini is purely the method of tethering yourself and for physical walking/running locomotion movement?

In other words you aren't synching the sensors built into the treadmill with the NaLo software and all the tracking is done with the Vive trackers and the Nalo software, allowing you to slide walk/run as opposed to walk in place, on the Katwalk mini's surface.

Unfortunately I can't afford the Vive trackers so I am looking to use Joycons and an Android phone + Nalo, along with my homemade slidemill, which to clarify has no embedded technology. It's purely a platform to anchor me and allow me to rotate 360 degrees and support me whilst I slide traverse the surface of the slidemill by real world running/walking.

I have tried the likes of Kat loco for walk in place and whilst it has it's positives, I decided walk in place locommotion is not for me.

I had asked the KatVR tech guys if the Kat Loco sensors might be used for tracking other than walk in place. (My thinking being I might be able to configure the Kat Gateway software to track my leg swing movements for locommotion since it does support motion capture).

Needless to say they ruled it out completely stating that wasn't how the sensors work - (they extrapolate footsteps for calculating the walk in place locommotion) - but then KatVR primarily manufacture treadmills with a new Kickstarter consumer treadmill pending, so it's unlikely they'd support Kat loco being used for anything other than walk in place.

Anyway, any commments appreciated.

thanks
D

[$chlOmO]

@Dan.B

Yes, I use the KatwalkMini only as a physical device. I dont even have it plugged in.

First I was considering building my own treadmill, but when I calculated all the materials and work hours required, I figured out, that it was cheaper to just buy the thing.

I would definitely get Vive Trackers though, since they are the superior form of tracking and everything else wont work as well. Plus you can use them for other stuff that isn't even treadmill related, like gun controllers and body tracking in VR chat.

They also aren't that expensive, considering what other things cost. Especially since they are designed to last for years and you have a decent warranty on them. So I would look for a way to somehow save up for Vive trackers if i were you.

Also, I don't think it is even possible to synch the treadmill with nalo, since all their inputs are done through their KatIO software.

[Dan.B]

Hi $chlOmO

Thanks for confirming, it's really helped. I had assumed the treadmill tech itself was out of the equation in your setup but just wanted to check. Very encouraging for my plans.

In my research over the last few weeks there has been a lot to wade through to get to an understanding regarding viable tracking options - especially when using homemade treadmills/slidemills. I've learnt a lot and misunderstood loads too along the way. Complete minefield.

I know what you mean regarding weighing up the cost/effort/risk of a home build vs commercial treadmill. However I wanted a challenge/project in lockdown and I am pretty handy, have a workshop space and lots of materials/tools. I love a challenge.
I've only spent around £200 odd on the build so far - most of the cost in metal, small bits of hardware and some industrial ball bearing turntables. The tracking tech is going to be the expensive part.

I am now seriously thinking about ditchin the Joycon/android phone combo option in favour of the Vive tracker options, but cost is still a major factor. I am based in the UK and looking around they seem way more expensive than say in the US.

For example the cheapest new are 1 x HTC SteamVR ver 2.0 basestation is £180, and Vive trackers (2.0s) are £110 each. So already talking £400+. Worse Amazon UK sells the trackers individually for £180-220 EACH!!! I'd want to buy new for the warranty.

I am still confused in respect of the Base station/Vive tracker situation.

I have read lots about requiring 2 x HTC SteamVR basestations (ver2.0) + 3 x Vive tracker 2.0 pucks for 360 deg tracking to facilitate full body tracking, (inc walking/running).
(Incidentally I'd read version 1.0 of both the HTC station and HTC Tracker aren't picked up with SteamVR so I would go for Ver 2.0 for both if I went ahead with this.)

I know this is a little outdated and of course I'd be using Natural Locomotion software, but this was the article I looked at

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/8f7c0o/oculus_touch_x_vive_trackers_guide/

However I see you only mention 2 x vive tracker pucks in your hardware list in your post. (Obvious but I assume you need at least 1 x HTC basestation in order for the trackers to be tracked after all and this is taken as a given?)

So a second base station and third Vive tracker are not really needed? (Ie the 3rd tracker would only be needed for full body tracking motion capture but 2 x will suffice for walking/running on a tread/slidemill?)

Sorry to ask perhaps obvious questions. However since you have it working and it's a lot to pay out I thought I'd ask.

thanks
D

[$chlOmO]

What headset do you have?

I don't think you need 3 trackers for NaLo. Afaik it can only handle two trackers at the same time.

I was assuming, that you already had base stations, thats why I was confused about the cost factor. 200 pounds is way overpriced for a Vive Tracker, even a new one. I got mine from a reputable store for 120 euros, brand new, with 1 year warranty extension. Go look around for smaller PC hardware stores that sell them, there should be plenty. I got mine here:

https://www.alternate.at/html/product/1434832

With a quick google search I found this:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/htc-vive-tracker-track-objects-and-special-accessories-in-vr-for-htc-vive-and-vive-pro-virtual-reali

So they are available in the UK for around 100 pounds it seems, no idea on how reputable that store is though.

You should also keep in mind, that Steam Base stations are the future of tracking in VR. I don't think that inside out tracking will be able to keep up with the quality of the Steam Base Station tracking. Meaning, that if you upgrade your headset in the future, you will most likely have to get Base Stations anyway, so they wont go to waste if you buy them now. Since all of the big names in VR (Pimax, Oculus, Vive) offer Steam Base station support.

You definitely need two base stations though, since with a treadmill you got plenty if occlusion going on and your feet are inside of the bowl in a hard to track spot.

But you should be able to get 2 trackers for under 250 pounds, everything else is overpriced, even with the current supply and demand situation.