Why do so many people want the old sprites?

[Albion Hero]

Do they not realize what a 240p sprite would look like blown up onto a big screen HD display?

its FF6 all over again

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by JonPringus:

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Oh the new players lose so much for not having a pixel mess in 1080p+ resolutions. Because that's what these games were all about, all the pixels you could count by hand and not the charming storytelling, characters and incredible turn of events.

Yes, they were about the pixels you could count on your hand. It added to the storytelling and the characters. They gave depth to Wright and co. that no other sprites can recapture.

They gave absolutely nothing to the storytelling Compared to an updated look. You are reaching so hard to justify your nostalgia goggles for inferior graphics. Capcom made absolutely the right choice by going with a modern look fit for modern devices ignoring the 5 disgruntled fans who can't accept that a modern version requires a modern look.

"It was the pixels that told the story and gave depth to the characters" I wonder what other ridiculous excuses do I have to see...

[Albion Hero]

The only thing low res sprites add to is the nostalgia feelings. Do you really think anyone playing this for the first time is going to want some GBA era sprites blown up to their 50 inch TV?

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Albion Hero:

The only thing low res sprites add to is the nostalgia feelings. Do you really think anyone playing this for the first time is going to want some GBA era sprites blown up to their 50 inch TV?

No they don't because they can't see past their nostalgia to understand how a new player would actually approach this game. "I wish this image was more pixelated on my 4K screen" was surely the first thing that entered the mind of someone who has never played this series before.

[JonPringus]

This is just anecdotal evidence, but the 3 real life friends I've shown the sprite comparisons to all agreed that the new sprites "just looked off" especially for Wright. Anecdotal, but shows that people can see past the idea that "HD ports need HD sprites.
Personally, I started playing the games after the HD trilogy was released, and I saw how gross Phoenix looked in HD and I couldn't stand to play looking at that for the 20 hours a game you spend in court.
Don't lie and say that pixel art, including GBA pixel art, can't look good on a 50" 4k screen. I have no idea how you can even say that seriously. Plus if people just play this without seeing the original, of course they're not going to think that it can be better than what they already have, and those are the people I'm trying to protect. Those who just want to enjoy the game. It's my responsibility to complain and fight in the hopes that they can play it in the way it should look.

[uraizen]

I would play it windowed.

[Albion Hero]

Originally posted by JonPringus:

Don't lie and say that pixel art, including GBA pixel art, can't look good on a 50" 4k screen. I have no idea how you can even say that seriously. Plus if people just play this without seeing the original, of course they're not going to think that it can be better than what they already have, and those are the people I'm trying to protect. Those who just want to enjoy the game. It's my responsibility to complain and fight in the hopes that they can play it in the way it should look.

Check my profile and you'll see I play pretty much no pixel based games, because I can't stand that old retro look on modern TVs. So I'm not lying, I am serious when I say that I feel the new HD graphics are the only way to play it. I wouldn't have even considered picking it up if they made it the old GBA graphics.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by JonPringus:

This is just anecdotal evidence, but the 3 real life friends I've shown the sprite comparisons to all agreed that the new sprites "just looked off" especially for Wright. Anecdotal, but shows that people can see past the idea that "HD ports need HD sprites.
Personally, I started playing the games after the HD trilogy was released, and I saw how gross Phoenix looked in HD and I couldn't stand to play looking at that for the 20 hours a game you spend in court.
Don't lie and say that pixel art, including GBA pixel art, can't look good on a 50" 4k screen. I have no idea how you can even say that seriously. Plus if people just play this without seeing the original, of course they're not going to think that it can be better than what they already have, and those are the people I'm trying to protect. Those who just want to enjoy the game. It's my responsibility to complain and fight in the hopes that they can play it in the way it should look.

Yes it's anecdotal evidence and there multiple things that can affect their opinions. Opinions and responses can already be affected by how you present the issue to them, their previous preferences and familiarity with the series among other things.

You realize that someone who starts with this versions and grows to love this version might actually think this look is better than the old sprites because this version is what that person is attached to?

[JonPringus]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

You realize that someone who starts with this versions and grows to love this version might actually think this look is better than the old sprites because this version is what that person is attached to?

And that would be a darn shame if they did, and it would not be the way the game should be experienced. Hard to not consider them victims of Capcom's bad decisions.
Since we already have these HD sprites, it'd be dumb to completely remove them from future releases. They should be kept as a non-default option for those who want to play the games again in a different way or for new players who want to play the games incorrectly.

[Albion Hero]

Originally posted by JonPringus:

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

You realize that someone who starts with this versions and grows to love this version might actually think this look is better than the old sprites because this version is what that person is attached to?

And that would be a darn shame if they did, and it would not be the way the game should be experienced. Hard to not consider them victims of Capcom's bad decisions.
Since we already have these HD sprites, it'd be dumb to completely remove them from future releases. They should be kept as a non-default option for those who want to play the games again in a different way or for new players who want to play the games incorrectly.

You sound like my dad who was complaining a year or two ago about how everyone only knows "The Sound of Silence" by Disturbed instead of the original song by Simon & Garfunkle. Like how everyone needs to appreciate the original instead of liking the new one.

People get old and get mad that people don't like the thing they liked when they were younger, and prefer the newer version. It happens.

[JonPringus]

Originally posted by Albion Hero:

You sound like my dad who was complaining a year or two ago about how everyone only knows "The Sound of Silence" by Disturbed instead of the original song by Simon & Garfunkle. Like how everyone needs to appreciate the original instead of liking the new one.

People get old and get mad that people don't like the thing they liked when they were younger, and prefer the newer version. It happens.

Your dad sounds like my kinda guy, lol. But I do think song covers (keyword: covers) can be better than the original and bring new meaning to it. Johnny Cash's version of "Hurt" adds a lot of new layers to the original song, his experiences and sufferings are so apparent in that, and while there is that same emotion and feeling in the NIN original, it doesn't capture the lifetime of experience and "hurt" that Cash has, and because of that I think it's the superior version. Though everyone should listen to the original as well.

But these games aren't covers, they're replacements for the originals. The perfect film that mirrors this situation is the colored version of "It's a Wonderful Life". The original was filmed in Black and White, for Black and White. Giving it color takes away from the cinematographic mastery of the original. Sure it adds a new way to see it and can show some things what were intended in the original, but it wasn't made for that. Having just the same film or the same game in a worse way ruins the experience for first time viewers even when they don't realize why. And some will see the original and accept that it's superior or they will convince themselves that the way they saw it first was the better version.

If Capcom wanted to fully remake and retell the Ace Attorney Trilogy, that'd be fine, and they could give it these bad sprites and rewrite all the cases to make it appeal to a modern audience. Then we could make an argument over which one is better, like "Hurt". But if a remaster, or replacement, removes an integral part of what made the games what they are, it isn't a matter of taste, it's a matter of what is (w)right and what is wrong, and it's wrong to replace the original.

[[UPP] Mad-Pochita]

i just finally realized that the new art looks funny because it's just a tracing of the old sprites. comparing them together shows how outdated it looks compared to the new games of the series. if only they just changed the style to look more like the new games i would defend the art, but this looks like a lazy trace over with lazy coloring. it looks too much like the old game that's why the new art looks ugly because big sprite art works differently than actual drawn art. this is not the only time capcom has disappointed me with their boring art style but they do amazing work with some titles!

[Peelsepuuppi]

Jesus people are actually implying that the change is as big as in song covers or artificially recolored films. No a much closer example is Taking an old black and white movie and remastering it by removing some of the bad visual artifacts common for the times, then complaining that the story telling and character depth is ruined because there are less artifacts on the screen...

Comparing this change to hurt is just... I wondered how far you people would try to reach to push your ridiculous narrative but not this far.

The only way you could compare this to a song cover like hurt is if the game was completely remade with entirely new art and writers who would alter the storytelling to give it a completely different mood from the original.

[Redblaze27]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Jesus people are actually implying that the change is as big as in song covers or artificially recolored films.

If its something you have to deal with every single second that you play....yeah.

For some or many, its a non-issue.

[JonPringus]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Comparing this change to hurt is just... I wondered how far you people would try to reach to push your ridiculous narrative but not this far.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was saying that this is *not* like Hurt because song covers don't try to replace the original like what this game collection is doing. It is like artificially recoloring films in that it tries to replace the original. To your point about artifacting, there's a difference between taking the original master and releasing that and digitally upscaling, or artificially upscaling the original. Funimation did this with some of their blu-ray releases, and it totally messed up the look of the animes, for many of those, it would have been better to just play it in 480p because it would look better. Sometimes the Master is lost, so something that could have been high-res can no longer be. There I can understand some artificial remastering projects by fans like with FF7, many of which tried and failed to replicate it, and it didn't look right until recently with decent upscaling software. But Square made the responsible decision and only released with the low res backgrounds.
The difference between FF7 and Ace Attorney trilogy is that we already got the "master" of the sprites in the GBA and DS versions. The HD version is an unnecessary additive onto a master copy. Apollo Justice's Masters were higher res than what they were on the DS, so the remaster there worked. The remasters of Beatles' tracks gave us a closer approximations to the originals than what we got before, though for some songs they messed with LR audio mixing that made it different from the original, and thus, worse.

[eqalidan]

Originally posted by Albion Hero:

The only thing low res sprites add to is the nostalgia feelings. Do you really think anyone playing this for the first time is going to want some GBA era sprites blown up to their 50 inch TV?

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Originally posted by Albion Hero:

The only thing low res sprites add to is the nostalgia feelings. Do you really think anyone playing this for the first time is going to want some GBA era sprites blown up to their 50 inch TV?

No they don't because they can't see past their nostalgia to understand how a new player would actually approach this game. "I wish this image was more pixelated on my 4K screen" was surely the first thing that entered the mind of someone who has never played this series before.

when I have the ability to play games with original graphics or updated ones, I almost always choose original, it comes down exclusively due to the people working on the games in the first place had passion, they wanted to make a good product, or at least someone on the chain of developers did and made sure the things where good.

by the time the game rolls around to a remaster, everyone who gave a single solitary ♥♥♥♥ is gone. I have said earlier, the graphics we got change the lighting and are lazy interpretations of the sprite work, the only redeeming thing about them is they at the very least aren't as god awful as the ios version.

If my choice is between an artist making pixel art, and a hack told to make a vector, I'll take the pixel art any day. hell I load up games like carmageddon in software and a scaled lower resolution because the pixelation makes the game look better because it hides how poor 3d was back then.