Missing with advantage

[Tsithlis]

What is up with the combat deck? It seems like every 3rd attack I roll with advantage I roll the miss and it picks the miss instead of the other card. Why would a miss ever be considered the better card for any reason?

[Tsithlis]

Gah! Nevermind I found out why. I cannot for the life of me think of why getting more powerful should make advantage a disadvantage. Did JOTL fix this, because I feel like we read something else that we had been playing by.

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by Zyrithym:

Gah! Nevermind I found out why. I cannot for the life of me think of why getting more powerful should make advantage a disadvantage. Did JOTL fix this, because I feel like we read something else that we had been playing by.

its an odd quirk with the games rules. it feels really bad for advantage to miss but adding rolling modifiers also diminishes the penalty of disadvantage in the same way. as for your question jaws did a couple things to fix this

1. none of the jaws characters have rolling modifiers
2. when advantage would create an ambiguous roll like +1 wind or +1 poison the player chooses which one they want while disadvantaged ambiguity is solved by whatever modifier was drawn first.

advantage and disadvantage with rolling is by far the most missplayed and houseruled thing in gloomhaven so if you played tabletop and this never happened you either were very lucky, missplayed, or were playing an alternate ruleset.

[Teensies_King]

Just to explain what you are seeing for others who may find this, "when you have rolling modifiers, you still draw 2 cards for [ad/disad]vantage as normal, but if one of them is a rolling mod you [add it to the other/ignore it and take the other]. If both are rolling, you continue to draw until you get a non-rolling mod then [add them all together/ignore all the rolling and take the non-rolling]." - DepressedRacoon (one of the discord mods)

Advantage is never a disadvantage in that you will never draw worse with advantage than without, but it sometimes has no effect on the results. On the flip side, rolling modifiers make it possible to crit with disadvantage. A number of people just choose to not add rolling modifiers to their deck in Guildmaster if they have a consistent source of Strengthen (in the board game campaign, taking perks will be forced when leveling up or getting them through checkmarks).

Jaws did change advantage/disadvantage in that if you have an ambiguous draw (ie something like +2 vs +0 immobilize), the player gets to choose which of the modifiers to use where base Gloomhaven, and digital, choose the first of the 2 cards drawn. Jaws also did't have any rolling modifiers in the perks decks, so missing with advantage never comes up in the game.

I've heard rumors, nothing confirmed in any way though, that Frosthaven will fix this general confusion in some way. Seems like the game will still have rolling modifiers, but maybe they will be treated differently with [dis]advantage.

[Jo]

What i find confusing is that you are supposed to add the modifiers. +1 rolling (technique perk say) + x0 should still let you do the damage +1. Looks like you actually multiply modifiers then with advantage?

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by Jo:

What i find confusing is that you are supposed to add the modifiers. +1 rolling (technique perk say) + x0 should still let you do the damage +1. Looks like you actually multiply modifiers then with advantage?

I could see why you think that, but unfortunately no. due to the ways the rules as written work, all rolling modifiers are put first in calculations before the actual modifier.

its easier to think about rolling modifiers like this : rolling modifiers are added to your action.

so a attack 2 with a rolling +1 becomes an attack 3 then that gets multiplied by 0

[Les White]

Originally posted by Zyrithym:

Gah! Nevermind I found out why. I cannot for the life of me think of why getting more powerful should make advantage a disadvantage. Did JOTL fix this, because I feel like we read something else that we had been playing by.

Advantage is NEVER a disadvantage. It ALWAYS results in more average damage.

The only downside is that you can in fact null once you add rolling modifiers. With the upside that the rolling modifiers now mean that you can crit with disadvantage.