Retaliation

[Captain Geriatric]

Isn't Retaliation nonsense? I understand it when the enemy AI is using it but once you use it they have 3 options:

Attack someone else from your party
Attack from a distance
or
Not attack at all

Whatever you do it seems the enemies will never recieve retaliation damage ^^ so you can only use it like a shield to avert damage from the char which is using it but not to do any damage to the enemy.

Isn't that dodging its purpose? I do not know if there are aoe aggro abilities later on but this was my experience so far with retaliation.

[Zooks]

But isn't that how we react to an enemy with Retaliation? Avoid it if at all possible?

[Captain Geriatric]

Origineel geplaatst door Zooks:

But isn't that how we react to an enemy with Retaliation? Avoid it if at all possible?

Depends on the situation

[Cesspit]

You can _try_ to make retaliate worthwhile (lower initiative and closer than other members, etc), but killing the enemy is better than trying to wangle them into position to kill themselves (whilst also injuring you)!

[Mario Storm]

Origineel geplaatst door Silent Moebius:

Isn't Retaliation nonsense? I understand it when the enemy AI is using it but once you use it they have 3 options:

Attack someone else from your party
Attack from a distance
or
Not attack at all

Whatever you do it seems the enemies will never recieve retaliation damage ^^ so you can only use it like a shield to avert damage from the char which is using it but not to do any damage to the enemy.

Isn't that dodging its purpose? I do not know if there are aoe aggro abilities later on but this was my experience so far with retaliation.

They dont have 3 options, i dont think you understand how the AI of Gloomhaven works, they draw a card and just follow what that card says, so if that card says attack melee they will attack you melee even if you have retaliate. You need to know what the enemies deck are composed of and what they are likely to draw and at what speed they usually act. They do not attack someone else because you have retaliate, if you are in front of them they will attack attack you, you should read the how to play section at least to understand the basics and follow the tutorial. It will help you understand what this game is about a lot

[Captain Geriatric]

Origineel geplaatst door Storm:

Origineel geplaatst door Silent Moebius:

Isn't Retaliation nonsense? I understand it when the enemy AI is using it but once you use it they have 3 options:

Attack someone else from your party
Attack from a distance
or
Not attack at all

Whatever you do it seems the enemies will never recieve retaliation damage ^^ so you can only use it like a shield to avert damage from the char which is using it but not to do any damage to the enemy.

Isn't that dodging its purpose? I do not know if there are aoe aggro abilities later on but this was my experience so far with retaliation.

They dont have 3 options, i dont think you understand how the AI of Gloomhaven works, they draw a card and just follow what that card says, so if that card says attack melee they will attack you melee even if you have retaliate. You need to know what the enemies deck are composed of and what they are likely to draw and at what speed they usually act. They do not attack someone else because you have retaliate, if you are in front of them they will attack attack you, you should read the how to play section at least to understand the basics and follow the tutorial. It will help you understand what this game is about a lot

you stated the obvious but it would be their last option to attack the target with retaliaton on - they don't simply attack just because its the closest target and if melee enemies have the option to attack from afar they will and they did.

[pseudosphere]

You might feel like it is actively avoiding retaliate, but it is not. Monster actions follow the rules from the boardgame, which is completely algorithmic. You should read up on the rule here:

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/598058/28/

Specifically, the "Monster Focus" section and the following sections on "Monster Movement" and "Monster Attack" will explain what's going on to you. If you feel like that's not what's happening, that's selective memory and/or (much more unlikely) a bug. Once you understand the rules that Monsters follow, then go back and play with retaliate and you'll see that it's simply following the algorithm.

[ExperimentalGamer]

Enemy AI does not have a "simply don't attack" option. If they pull a card with a melee attack and you're their preferred target (based primarily on who they're closest to), they'll attack you and take the retaliate damage for doing so.

There are a lot of ways that plain bad luck can screw you if you use your action to play a retaliate card instead of an attack card. The enemy can beat your initiative, pull a card that isn't about walking up to you and swinging, or you might have another character move into a position that messes with your plan. Plus of course they depend on the enemy being able to hit you and damage you. Retaliate based cards tend to be looked down on for this reason.

[I Denizen I]

Monsters in the board game do not ignore player characters with retaliate. And after playing with the bard and giving all my characters retaliate, I have seen it trigger plenty.

That being said, if you want your (single) character with retaliate to get hit, they need to be closer to enemies than everyone else in your party, and your enemies need to be moving and doing melee attacks, or not moving if adjacent and melee attacking.

Plus a whole host of other issues, pathing, traps, terrain etc etc.

But i have not seen any enemies doing a move/melee activation move past an engageable player character to avoid retaliation.

[Captain Geriatric]

Origineel geplaatst door EQ2 Nagash:

Monsters in the board game do not ignore player characters with retaliate. And after playing with the bard and giving all my characters retaliate, I have seen it trigger plenty.

That being said, if you want your (single) character with retaliate to get hit, they need to be closer to enemies than everyone else in your party, and your enemies need to be moving and doing melee attacks, or not moving if adjacent and melee attacking.

Plus a whole host of other issues, pathing, traps, terrain etc etc.

But i have not seen any enemies doing a move/melee activation move past an engageable player character to avoid retaliation.

I had my brute next to 2 skeletons (melee) in the round where i used my retaliation buff, both stepped one step back and threw a dagger at the brute to avoid the retaliation damage.

i didnt seen at another time a skeleton throwing a dagger, also enemies can skip their attacks if they won't deal any damage. An enemy walked towards my spellweaver and didn't attack because she was shielded and wouldn't recieve any damage anyways.

It is obvious that enemies pull cards, but that doesn't change the fact that they have only 3 options when 1 char has retaliation. There is not much to choose from, the total amount of actions what enemies have are:

Attack Melee
Attack Ranged
Summon
Heal
Buff
Move

Thats all their options - you can correct me on that if i missed something but as far as i can tell this is all they can do. The AI acts upon these options and the given circumstances in battle.

[Teensies_King]

Origineel geplaatst door Silent Moebius:

Origineel geplaatst door EQ2 Nagash:

Monsters in the board game do not ignore player characters with retaliate. And after playing with the bard and giving all my characters retaliate, I have seen it trigger plenty.

That being said, if you want your (single) character with retaliate to get hit, they need to be closer to enemies than everyone else in your party, and your enemies need to be moving and doing melee attacks, or not moving if adjacent and melee attacking.

Plus a whole host of other issues, pathing, traps, terrain etc etc.

But i have not seen any enemies doing a move/melee activation move past an engageable player character to avoid retaliation.

I had my brute next to 2 skeletons (melee) in the round where i used my retaliation buff, both stepped one step back and threw a dagger at the brute to avoid the retaliation damage.

i didnt seen at another time a skeleton throwing a dagger, also enemies can skip their attacks if they won't deal any damage. An enemy walked towards my spellweaver and didn't attack because she was shielded and wouldn't recieve any damage anyways.

It is obvious that enemies pull cards, but that doesn't change the fact that they have only 3 options when 1 char has retaliation. There is not much to choose from, the total amount of actions what enemies have are:

Attack Melee
Attack Ranged
Summon
Heal
Buff
Move

Thats all their options - you can correct me on that if i missed something but as far as i can tell this is all they can do. The AI acts upon these options and the given circumstances in battle.

This is either wrong (you are describing things for the wrong enemy type), or you are experiencing an extremely weird bug that you should report. All enemies have 8 different cards that they can pull from that will determine what they do that round. You can view all of them on the following website (note: spoilers for enemy names are unavoidable): https://github.com/any2cards/gloomhaven/tree/master/images

Taking a look at it, Living Bones have 0 cards that will Attack at range, but Bandit Guards (the cards for Guards in general) have 1 card where they will Attack at range 2. Like said above, enemies attacking at range will attempt to move away from their focus in order to avoid disadvantage (and only for that reason). They also have 1 card where they Shield up for 1 and add Retaliate 2. Living Bones also have 1 card where they Shield up for 1 and Heal for 2. The cards that they draw are not influenced by what you are doing each turn, but if you aren't prepared for the variance in what they may do, it can definitely feel that way. A funny effect of them just drawing a card and doing whatever it says relates to oozes. They have 2 cards where they damage themselves and then Summon additional oozes. This is annoying in general, but hilarious when they are at 2 health, suffer 2 damage (killing themselves) and are unable to Summon an additional ooze.

The other thing you experienced, an enemy walking towards the Spellweaver and not attacking) is because not every card tells the enemies to attack. For example, the Living Corpse initiative 91 card says that the Corpses with move +1 (whatever their base movement is plus 1) and then suffer 1 damage. Because Attack doesn't appear on the card, they won't attack that round; use it to your advantage!

[Solace]

Origineel geplaatst door Silent Moebius:

Origineel geplaatst door EQ2 Nagash:

Monsters in the board game do not ignore player characters with retaliate. And after playing with the bard and giving all my characters retaliate, I have seen it trigger plenty.

That being said, if you want your (single) character with retaliate to get hit, they need to be closer to enemies than everyone else in your party, and your enemies need to be moving and doing melee attacks, or not moving if adjacent and melee attacking.

Plus a whole host of other issues, pathing, traps, terrain etc etc.

But i have not seen any enemies doing a move/melee activation move past an engageable player character to avoid retaliation.

I had my brute next to 2 skeletons (melee) in the round where i used my retaliation buff, both stepped one step back and threw a dagger at the brute to avoid the retaliation damage.

i didnt seen at another time a skeleton throwing a dagger, also enemies can skip their attacks if they won't deal any damage. An enemy walked towards my spellweaver and didn't attack because she was shielded and wouldn't recieve any damage anyways.

It is obvious that enemies pull cards, but that doesn't change the fact that they have only 3 options when 1 char has retaliation. There is not much to choose from, the total amount of actions what enemies have are:

Attack Melee
Attack Ranged
Summon
Heal
Buff
Move

Thats all their options - you can correct me on that if i missed something but as far as i can tell this is all they can do. The AI acts upon these options and the given circumstances in battle.

You're definitely imagining things.

Monsters will attack regardless of shield/retaliate status according to the "monster AI" rules linked above. Monsters -will- (including ranged monsters) run at one of the heroes if they're disarmed and not attack. That also follows the monster AI linked above. In short, unless a monster explicitly has a ranged attack on the card, it will move as if it is performing a melee attack (regardless of if it performs a melee attack or not).

Additionally, Living Bones (Skeletons) do NOT have a ranged attack in their entire attack deck. The -guard- deck has a 2 range thrown knife attack. So you might be getting your monsters mixed up.

In summary, the monster AI rules posted above are the reality happening in the game.

[pseudosphere]

"If the monster is performing a ranged attack, it will only move toward a hex where it is within range to perform its best possible attack. A monster will also move away from its focused enemy until it can perform the ranged attack without Disadvantage. "

If a monster has a ranged attack, whether that is innate or because it drew a ranged attack card, it will follow the rule and step away from its focus if it is adjacent to the focus and legally can move away to avoid disadvantage. It has nothing to do with retaliate. This is all from the algorithm as expressed in the rulebook.

[Zeel Ara]

This topic is the Gloomhaven version of the "The RNG is rigged against me!" that pops up in every game with dice rolls :D

[Ismoísta]

Comrade, please understand, you misunderstood the rules and/or are misremembering things, it's ok to just admit you made a mistake and learn from it.

[[CNR] Drewclam]

If there is confusion on how the enemy AI works, you can reference the table top instructions for the details on how the monster will focus and move to attack you. Specifically starting on page 29: https://cdn.1j1ju.com/medias/8d/c5/21-gloomhaven-rulebook.pdf