Is it supposed to be this hard or am I doing something wrong?

[Gog]

Hello, I really like playing hard tactical games. Just started playing gloomhaven in brutal difficulty with 3 dudes (demolitionist, redguard and hatchet) and it seems IMPOSSIBLE. I can't get past the first cenario.
Do I suck?
Am I supposed to fail lots of times and "grind" gold in this game?
Are theese characters the worst of the worst?
Am I supposed to level my dudes before raising difficulty? (like diablo games)

If I do suck, any tips/guides/meta characters and abilities recommended?

Edit: I played Jotw in real life in the hardest dificulty live with some friends, we went to scenario 8 with only one loss in scenario 4. Is Jotl easier?

[Finieous]

Originally posted by Gog:

Do I suck?
Am I supposed to fail lots of times and "grind" gold in this game?
Are theese characters the worst of the worst?
Am I supposed to level my dudes before raising difficulty? (like diablo games)

If I do suck, any tips/guides/meta characters and abilities recommended?

I played Jotw in real life in the hardest dificulty live with some friends, we went to scenario 8 with only one loss in scenario 4. Is Jotl easier?

1. No, you probably just need more experience/understanding of the game mechanics.
   
2. No, you're not supposed to grind.
   
3. No, those characters aren't the worst.
   
4. Yes, probably level before raising difficulty. You'll have more options to deal with surprises, but the main benefit may be that you're more familiar with the mechanics and your characters (not that they are higher level, per se).
   
5. Lots of threads with tips. A recent one is https://steamcommunity.com/app/780290/discussions/0/3370405530898476731/
   
6. Yes, JOTL is easier. It's essentially a guided tutorial that introduced the mechanics incrementally.

Some common tips:

• Start with Guildmaster rather than the boardgame Campaign.
  
• Start on normal difficulty.
  
• Play with only two characters at first.
  
• Read the rules for the boardgame on how monster AI works.
  
• Don't burn cards early; use the default Attack 2/Move 2 if you don't want to burn a card.

Lots more in that thread (and others).

Edit: Missed a question ;)

[Jo]

If it's too difficult, lower the difficulty

[Thrawn_1986]

While I typically like to play games on harder difficulties, Starting out gloomhaven first time on deadly (+3) is yikes!

As the scenario level goes up more than just enemy stats (health, move, and attack) change. some will have innate abilities (like shield) that can make dealing with them more difficult than may be expected.

Finally, you may have had a better grasp of the rules for the board game, but for myself even after playing the board game over a year I still occasionally come across a rule I had misunderstood in the board game and get caught off guard. Also, I believe some mechanics were left out of JOTL to simplify it.

Did you only play through scenario 8 on JOTL? If I remember correctly the first 5 or so are fairly easy with the intent of teaching how to play. so not a good representation of difficulty.

[TRJoker]

I had the same problem then you, did play some scenarios of the boardgame with friends about 3 or 4 years ago and know meanwhile that the friend owning the game did alter the gamebook and the rules to make it easier for us others to get started.
So I also thaught the digital version is much harder then the boardgame.
But it seems it is not , the boardgame is originally very hard too, it was made for nerds, not for the average casual and the hardcore players are very happy with the decision to stay with the difficulty for the digital game.
In my opinion this was not very clever, most of all, cause most ppl play it solo, so no friends or mentors to help you getting started, but I did discuss this here already somewhere else and most ppl that actually play the game (which are really few compared to the number of sold copies) think its good and should stay as it is.
Guildmaster Mode was made to adress this problem, but ... not a very good solution in my opinion too, cause also this mode does not help you understand the mechanics with a slow and step by step learning curve, its just a bit easier. But you still have to learn mostly by try and error, the game does not help you understand the rules or the mechanics at all.
So ... read a lot, learn the rules, watch videos (one of the best tips here given to me was watching videos of a guy named Mandatory Quest, he explains the mechanics in his twitch and you tube videos very good) before you start. Sounds like much spent time before playing, is much spent time before playing, but will save you a lot of time with try and error.
Or try to get an experienced player to play together with you for mentorship, there is a coop feature.

[Augustus Gloop]

Originally posted by Gog:

If I do suck, any tips/guides/meta characters and abilities recommended?

I'm presently in the same boat as you except I started on hard not brutal.

The main advice I was given was to not play the game on anything other than normal or easy. I was tempted to do that but decided to stick with hard as it felt right for me. I felt that the reason the game seemed punishing was because I didn't fully understand how to play it and I was right.

I still don't fully understand a lot of the game but it feels more manageable than it did at first.

As for tips. This is what I've learned so far:

1. Do the initiative dance. It's kind of like the safety dance but with cards instead of safety.
2. Buy and equip gear ASAP! It'll save your life!
3. Use only 2 mercs in the beginning. Not sure when it's safe to use more but any more than 2 seems needlessly difficult.
4. Don't burn cards (I guess?). I'm still struggling with this one as it seems unavoidable.

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by TRJoker:

Guildmaster Mode was made to adress this problem

Hey, you keep making assumptions and stating them as facts, often incorrectly. Guildmaster mode was actually made as a way to test the game before release. Now, I often recommend folks start with Guildmaster because it is easier than the Campaign (until you hit a 10 round survival mission, at least), but "easier" or "training" wasn't its purpose.

The thing that's there to make the game easier is the easier difficulty setting. There's a setting even easier than the board game allows. As Augustus says, as I have said:

If the game is too hard, lower the difficulty.
If the game is too easy, raise the difficulty.

/Edit Stick with two mercenaries until you can play both those mercenaries well. It's recommended at first to make the learning curve easier. Add a third once you're comfortable with two, if you want to. Some two player pairings are difficult, but there's no bad trio.

[TRJoker]

Originally posted by Slow Dog:

Originally posted by TRJoker:

Guildmaster Mode was made to adress this problem

Hey, you keep making assumptions and stating them as facts, often incorrectly. Guildmaster mode was actually made as a way to test the game before release. Now, I often recommend folks start with Guildmaster because it is easier than the Campaign (until you hit a 10 round survival mission, at least), but "easier" or "training" wasn't its purpose.

The thing that's there to make the game easier is the easier difficulty setting. There's a setting even easier than the board game allows. As Augustus says, as I have said:

If the game is too hard, lower the difficulty.
If the game is too easy, raise the difficulty.

/Edit Stick with two mercenaries until you can play both those mercenaries well. It's recommended at first to make the learning curve easier. Add a third once you're comfortable with two, if you want to. Some two player pairings are difficult, but there's no bad trio.

Lol, someboody here told me guildmastermode was made for learning the game, that was not my idea. I even did not believe it first ... cause it does not solve the problem.
Smile.

[Augustus Gloop]

Originally posted by Slow Dog:

/Edit Stick with two mercenaries until you can play both those mercenaries well. It's recommended at first to make the learning curve easier. Add a third once you're comfortable with two, if you want to. Some two player pairings are difficult, but there's no bad trio.

That works for me. I'm happy with my Brute Tinkerer duo atm. Once you learn how to play mercs properly the game really does have an incredible flow to it.

[Zeel Ara]

It's a difficult boardgame. Which is something completely different than a difficult videogame. So yes, it is supposed to be this hard, and this is simply your first encounter with the genre. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't recommend trying to learn the game in higher difficulties. Just like someone who has never played tactical turn based videogame in their life should probably not grab Long War and max out difficulty the very first time they touch an XCOM game. Don't let misplaced ego gate your own access. You are not meant to play on high difficulties when you don't know the game or the genre. And you don't. In the cardboard version you are asked to choose difficulty during setup of every single scenario. And what applies in the boardgame applies here. This isn't a video game interpretation of the board game. It is literally a digital version of the board game.

We see so incredibly many players who smash their face into a wall here because they think their experience with video games transfer 1:1 to board games. They do not. There's a lot of transfers. Mostly that it'll allow you to learn *much* faster than others. But that doesn't enter the picture if you expect to already be an expert. In this genre, you're a newbie. And that's awesome. You get to experience the full journey. That's something to celebrate, rather than trying to bypass.

[Thrawn_1986]

Originally posted by Ratley:

this is simply your first encounter with the genre.

I think this is the best point, It's really easy to assume Gloomhaven is going to be like something else, but if there is any other tactical games that play like gloomhavenb I am unaware of them. Especially the primary mechanic of managing ability cards and burning vs. discarding.

Also, being a fairly faithful adaption of the board game it isn't best played solo. I'd recommend joining the discord. there are usually people looking to play. Also, makes learning much easier. (can usually even find people up for the challenge of higher difficulties if that's really what you want).

[Jacina]

3 characters, is one of the harder "setups" I think.

In general any characters will clear it.

Initiative "dancing" is extremely important for squishies:

1. Go last at the start -> they advance but usually can't reach you.
2. You go in, hit them
3. Next round you go as fast as you can
4. Hit them
5. Run away / stand somewhere where incoming damage is minimized.

Rinse, repeat. (The mindthief is extremely good at this, but also if you mess up just once, you're dead :P )

Abuse the "stealth cloak" and doorways -> this blocks the door completely, as they can't run past you.

Get movement boots on all melee (at least initially)

Once you get a few levels, you'll have more cards, and items to deal with "surprises" which cooincides nicely with the mobs becoming more "surprising"

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by TRJoker:

Lol, someboody here told me guildmastermode was made for learning the game, that was not my idea. I even did not believe it first ... cause it does not solve the problem.
Smile.

Probably that was me (a player with less than 2 weeks experience so I was talking about my impression, not about dev intents), but actually I meant that it is much easier to learn the game in guildmaster mode than in camapign for many reasons:
1) you can reset your characters and choose all cards again without losing anything
2) all classes are unlocked reliably and much easier
3) scenarios are much shorter and easier
4) you don't care about wealth/prosperity
5) shared gold makes it easier to equip new mercenaries