Game is too slow!!! Horrible First Time Player experience!

[TheGameHoarder]

I want to love this game, but it is too slow!

After spending 2 hours through the most tedious tutorial I've ever went through, I finally get to make my two mercenary warband and hop into the first encounter finding the missing blacksmith. COOL! Finally! But...

During the encounter I find out how long you actually end up taking in actually deciding your rounds and picking between two halves of different cards and mixing and matching and then synergizing between characters... pfff

I finally burn the last two mobs to a crisp after an hour and prep the order so that I can squeeze all the XP points from cards that I can, end up burning two cards just b4 what I thought was the end of the encounter...

Surprise the encounter does not end, it's again my turn!!!

Completely didn't realize there's one more damn room filled with another 5 mobs just like in the first that I already spent 1 hour clearing...

I tried, managed to kill 2 b4 getting fatigued because I was out of cards...

Damn, just moving to the second room had me burn 2-3 cards per hero.

This is literally horrible! Worst gaming experience ever!!!!!

Want to love the game and say I'll actually give it another shot, but most probably no, and the only reason... It takes too damn much to do anything!!!

And also just wasting those first 4-5 hours like that, that is not enjoying anything, that's a face slap, tedious tutorial which is basically a puzzle game and then after, the actual gameplay, which starts you off with incredibly long levels and a huge amount of monster, unclear that you have multiple rooms too clear (!!! which was the worst thing) and dying not from getting bashed in by mobs, but from running out of cards because you lose 1/3 of them just from walking across the room to get to the next.

Really?! Want to love it; love the concept of it, but damn, the first player experience is horrendous, doesn't even give you any time to love the more complex and hard aspects of it. Simply horrible.

[Thrawn_1986]

the game is long ... for all the complaint you list just imagine having to also setup the board control the enemies shuffle the decks and then put everything away. yeah it's long, but the saved time is why all the lovers of the boardgame love the digital version so much.

secondary, some of what you describe will be solved with time and learning. you can zoom out and see shadowy are for the whole map, so you can always know from the beginning if there is more to the map. as you become more familiar with the characters it will take less time to make decisions.

[TheGameHoarder]

Originally posted by Thrawn_1986:

the game is long ... for all the complaint you list just imagine having to also setup the board control the enemies shuffle the decks and then put everything away. yeah it's long, but the saved time is why all the lovers of the boardgame love the digital version so much.

secondary, some of what you describe will be solved with time and learning. you can zoom out and see shadowy are for the whole map, so you can always know from the beginning if there is more to the map. as you become more familiar with the characters it will take less time to make decisions.

You don't get it, "the first player experience is horrendous, doesn't even give you any time to love the more complex and hard aspects of it"...

I'm a first-time player, I never played the digital board-game (which by the way I played other board-games, just the social aspect alone / or even the first-time experience out of playing a board game by yourself is much better than when you have a computer running on clear rules that you can't break by mistake).

On this let me guess first time you ever encountered a second room to a dungeon was in the board game right? Well I presume you had to physically put that second room by yourself as you made it clear by now, so your first time experience was not like mine when because the game was not abundantly clear, I had to find there is a second room after I burned cards to get the XP from them and nothing else just because I though the map was ending just to be thrown ash in my mouth when I find out from the PC that actually I was wrong and there was a second room.

All of this presented above, after I spent 2 hours on a damn game that didn't give me any satisfaction of playing it. You know, in the world of gaming, getting that first shot of something out of a game is needed or else it's a slap in the face to the person that not only buys it but that spends time on it rather than on something else.

I don't know if you get it, and I don't have the patience of trying to think any more than I have already done about this game, but this is not how you do a first player experience.

Finally, reiterating on what I just said, your first time experience was with the physical, even if it takes much more time to set up and get used to the rules and everything, you still have the freedom of making mistakes and then later learning from them, no doubt you won a game or two not knowing you were actually at fault in "following the rules", in the PC version of that, this is not possible, so as a video game developer you need to address that and make it possible for real newcomers that buy your game to actually have time to enjoy your game, and you don't do it by having these complex system that are very punishing (and don't doubt they are really cool, but only after you have a few achievements under your belt and some confidence!) put off against a new player in a long damn first mission that is not very clear and that has an insane number of mobs thrown on you with insane distance to cover via walking that burns cards!

Yet again I find the game mechanics brilliant, but the damn new player experience horrible!

[Toad]

Originally posted by TheGameHoarder:

I want to love this game, but it is too slow!

Claim your refund while you can. I believe there's a time limit.

[Thrawn_1986]

"You don't get it"

ok

All the great reviews on steam and elsewhere I suppose don't get it either. If it isn't for you it isn't for you thats cool. good luck finding things you do enjoy.

Edit:

"And also just wasting those first 4-5 hours like that, that is not enjoying anything"

This I will admit I do not get. If winning is what makes a game fun and there is no fun to be had when you lose, is the game really fun? or just the winning.

As, much as I like the game I want others to like it too, not every game is for everyone and thats ok.

[esx9]

Yes, this game is very slow. It usually takes my group 3 hours to finish a scenario, and at that rate it can be pretty deflating if you lose right at the end. If it's any consolation, you keep your gold and experience with each try, and any reputation gained through random events. this game is punishing, but in the long run it's impossible to lose.

One of the scenarios I had to play 3 times before winning. I don't worry about losing anymore, we just come back stronger and better prepared. If anything this game teaches patience and if you're playing as a group you can enjoy that session whether you win or lose.

(It's way more fun to discuss strategies with your group although that's technically disallowed by the "rules")

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by esx9:

(It's way more fun to discuss strategies with your group although that's technically disallowed by the "rules")

You are absolutely allowed to discuss strategy with the group. The (physical) game forbids you from naming cards or using the numbers specified on cards at the point you're choosing the cards. That's all.

"I'll pick 'Mana Bolt' to go on initiative 7" - not allowed.
"I'm going to go really fast to zap that Bandit. What do you think?" - absolutely fine.

And then there's no restrictions at all once cards are revealed (other than revealing your battle goal).

[Zeel Ara]

Should've looked at the tin before opening it.

[esx9]

Originally posted by Slow Dog:

"I'll pick 'Mana Bolt' to go on initiative 7" - not allowed.
"I'm going to go really fast to zap that Bandit. What do you think?" - absolutely fine.

Right, so you need to learn to speak in coded language. I imagine by the end of a campaign you will have made up enough slang to say exactly what you want without actually saying it. Really adds a fun twist to the game.

[Keen Shadow of the Mist]

This is almost 1:1 board game portraied in on the PC. Just switch off your ADHD for a while Kiddo and try to enjoy it. Also, you didn't die because you "ran out of cards" and not from mobs. Enemies killed you, because your character was exhausted and literally couldn't move. That what "running out of cards" means. You've simply exhausted your heroes to death and mobs killed them when they lied barerly moving or unconceous.

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by esx9:

Right, so you need to learn to speak in coded language.

Not exactly. You just naturally and quickly learn exactly what it means when your Spellweaver says "I'm going really fast".

Else see here for the coded language:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/ayrfho/the_assholes_guide_to_initiative/

[Keen Shadow of the Mist]

Originally posted by esx9:

Originally posted by Slow Dog:

"I'll pick 'Mana Bolt' to go on initiative 7" - not allowed.
"I'm going to go really fast to zap that Bandit. What do you think?" - absolutely fine.

Right, so you need to learn to speak in coded language. I imagine by the end of a campaign you will have made up enough slang to say exactly what you want without actually saying it. Really adds a fun twist to the game.

You can also don't give a fck about it and play without that stupid rule.

[TheGameHoarder]

Ok, so the main point was that for a PC adaptation, it would had been nice if they made the first few scenarios a little bit less challenging, and a little bit more dumbed down with a little bit more explaining. I wouldn't mind losing it, if I had known how damn long the thing took, if I KNEW FROM THE START THERE WAS ANOTHER ROOM(!),if it were slightly less taxing for damn freaking walking, or even scratch the last part if I knew the first two would had been put in a situation where I would be less expectant to "finish it already", and I would of had more cards, so maybe I would had accepted how many cards I needed to burn to reach the other side of the room.

Like I told the guy above, all who played the physical version would have never experience the error of not knowing there is another room on the encounter, so you all know jack s**t about the first-player experience that I'm talking about.

PS I find the mechanics smart and actually think I would enjoy them, so all who talk about us needing less difficult games, that's around the damn point.

[Keen Shadow of the Mist]

Originally posted by TheGameHoarder:

Ok, so the main point was that for a PC adaptation, it would had been nice if they made the first few scenarios a little bit less challenging, and a little bit more dumbed down with a little bit more explaining.

Why? PC players are stupid? It would be good maybe for consoles, but not PC players.
The game is just not for you, return it and end of story.

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by TheGameHoarder:

.
Like I told the guy above, all who played the physical version would have never experience the error of not knowing there is another room on the encounter, so you all know jack s**t about the first-player experience that I'm talking about.

Eh, but the equivalent happens. Sometimes you reach the "end" of a scenario, read the special rule, and 5 more enemies spawn in.

The game is famously difficult at the start. It's also wonderful. I hope you give the game more of a chance and end up feeling the same.

[Thrawn_1986]

Originally posted by Slow Dog:

Originally posted by TheGameHoarder:

.
Like I told the guy above, all who played the physical version would have never experience the error of not knowing there is another room on the encounter, so you all know jack s**t about the first-player experience that I'm talking about.

Eh, but the equivalent happens. Sometimes you reach the "end" of a scenario, read the special rule, and 5 more enemies spawn in.

The game is famously difficult at the start. It's also wonderful. I hope you give the game more of a chance and end up feeling the same.

On table top simulator there is the option to hide the rooms before entering them. not everyone looked in the scenario guide and those that did intentionally did not read ahead or review the board. so no, it isn't like we knew everything that was coming.