Worst loot system in a game award

[Cautemoc]

I've never seen a system so arbitrary as only allowing looting while enemies are in the encounter. Like what a completely stupid idea that was "let's just set up a system where we punish people for the number of rounds they take, also do semi-random amounts of damage, and then punish them for finishing the encounter too". Oops, the attack you wanted to stun an enemy ended up killing it? Too bad, no loot for you. This game just completely irritates the hell out of me with all these irrational design choices just to make things difficult.

[Broockle]

I've had a few epic encounters that only became so tight cause one of my allies had a certain battle goal, got exp greedy or had to grab dat booty.
When you lose cause of those moments it's well deserved ;D
I think it creates a really fun dynamic as you topple over one another reaching for the loot.

[gromolko]

You've never encountered that? I thought that was a Diablo thing and thus a hallowed tradition in the genre.

[DeMasked]

Realistically the loot system doesn't make sense but this isn't real life where you'd have someone crouching over a dead body poking around in the pockets while in the middle of a fire fight.

It would make more sense if after a scenario the heroes would then get a list of what was found from loot acquired - unless there is an escalation effect where they don't have the time to linger in the area and get little to no reward.

The current system is very much tied to ARPG's / RPG's and the battle goal system - the latter of which I don't like in it's current implementation and it becomes redundant later on should you retire a bunch of characters / have high prosperity.

[Cautemoc]

İlk olarak DeMasked tarafından gönderildi:

Realistically the loot system doesn't make sense but this isn't real life where you'd have someone crouching over a dead body poking around in the pockets while in the middle of a fire fight.

It would make more sense if after a scenario the heroes would then get a list of what was found from loot acquired - unless there is an escalation effect where they don't have the time to linger in the area and get little to no reward.

The current system is very much tied to ARPG's / RPG's and the battle goal system - the latter of which I don't like in it's current implementation and it becomes redundant later on should you retire a bunch of characters / have high prosperity.

What I wish they'd have done is some kind of hybrid system that would, let's say, have "souls" from enemies that you gather by being near their dead bodies and those go away at the end of the encounter, and then loot that you get a round to gather at the end of the encounter. Souls could be an augment to the amount of EXP you gain, and loot would be.. loot. That way you are still encouraged to be "greedy" but there's not this arbitrary non-sense system that punishes you for finishing an encounter.

It seems like they were so focused on matching the board game, they ignored what it being a video game could improve on / makes a game fun to play. I don't mind difficult games - what bothers me are obscure punishment systems like the events that you need to look up the outcomes of online, and arbitrary limits on how you can play just because they said so.

[scott_smart2000]

The entire complaining about the loot system in the game (and you're not the first and won't be the last) shows that people don't grasp both what the game is and isn't and how strategy games SHOULD work aka have painful strategic choices.

First, this isn't a game where you have to save 2,000 gold to buy that really awesome sword/staff/spell you'll need to clear the next level/area. In fact, once you get the few items equipped to fill your slots and a few gold to buy additional potions as slots open up as you level, you never need gold again (excluding the one PQ of donating to the Temple). Sure, enhancing cards is nice, but it's entirely unnecessary to winning. Unlike every RPG on the planet, money means next to nothing in this game. So, say the loot system was exactly what you want where you get every single coin in every single room of every scenario. What are you spending it on? Putting Bless on every single card you can which will literally make the game a joke? Putting Curse on every single card which will also make the game a joke? You can play a 4-player campaign with no more than 2 actual loot cards on the team at a time and have tons and tons of money. I've done it in 2 campaigns. Never once have I lost a scenario because I didn't have enough money to buy that one additional potion or weapon.

Second, looting as is done in the game is done specifically to make it a painful choice to the players. Do you keep a loot card in your deck since they're mostly bad cards or burn cards? Do you keep an enemy alive one extra round to get more gold? Do you move onto a pile of gold at the end of a turn even though it might put you in danger this turn or the next or make the next turn a little more difficult on choosing cards? But I get it. Gamers have been playing strategy games that lack strategic decisions for a long time so it's weird when you see them. They're not fun choices because if you have only easy choices, there's no strategy to the game.

[Cautemoc]

İlk olarak scott_smart2000 tarafından gönderildi:

The entire complaining about the loot system in the game (and you're not the first and won't be the last) shows that people don't grasp both what the game is and isn't and how strategy games SHOULD work aka have painful strategic choices.

First, this isn't a game where you have to save 2,000 gold to buy that really awesome sword/staff/spell you'll need to clear the next level/area. In fact, once you get the few items equipped to fill your slots and a few gold to buy additional potions as slots open up as you level, you never need gold again (excluding the one PQ of donating to the Temple). Sure, enhancing cards is nice, but it's entirely unnecessary to winning. Unlike every RPG on the planet, money means next to nothing in this game. So, say the loot system was exactly what you want where you get every single coin in every single room of every scenario. What are you spending it on? Putting Bless on every single card you can which will literally make the game a joke? Putting Curse on every single card which will also make the game a joke? You can play a 4-player campaign with no more than 2 actual loot cards on the team at a time and have tons and tons of money. I've done it in 2 campaigns. Never once have I lost a scenario because I didn't have enough money to buy that one additional potion or weapon.

Second, looting as is done in the game is done specifically to make it a painful choice to the players. Do you keep a loot card in your deck since they're mostly bad cards or burn cards? Do you keep an enemy alive one extra round to get more gold? Do you move onto a pile of gold at the end of a turn even though it might put you in danger this turn or the next or make the next turn a little more difficult on choosing cards? But I get it. Gamers have been playing strategy games that lack strategic decisions for a long time so it's weird when you see them. They're not fun choices because if you have only easy choices, there's no strategy to the game.

I like how this comment tries to simultaneously say that loot doesn't matter but also the loot is what makes this is a deeply strategic game that cashuls like me can't possibly comprehend.

[nicole spann]

git gud

[Mike Garrison]

İlk olarak Cautemoc tarafından gönderildi:

I like how this comment tries to simultaneously say that loot doesn't matter but also the loot is what makes this is a deeply strategic game that cashuls like me can't possibly comprehend.

LOL. Yup.

Go with the first one. Gold really doesn't matter all that much. Treasure chests are a different story -- they are usually worth getting (and accepting the risk that they might be traps).

Some classes do have make-or-break enhancements. There is one enhancement that makes the Sunkeeper SO MUCH BETTER, for instance. But mostly, enhancements are gravy, not the meat and potatoes.

[Cautemoc]

İlk olarak Mike Garrison tarafından gönderildi:

Go with the first one. Gold really doesn't matter all that much. Treasure chests are a different story -- they are usually worth getting (and accepting the risk that they might be traps).

Some classes do have make-or-break enhancements. There is one enhancement that makes the Sunkeeper SO MUCH BETTER, for instance. But mostly, enhancements are gravy, not the meat and potatoes.

The thing that broke me was I was playing with a friend and, after 5 tries, we finally beat the very first quest. There was about 12+ gold on the ground and a chest, but my friend accidentally killed the last enemy with what was supposed to be a stun attack. So we lost everything. That was like.. I'd say 2 hours of attempts and doing research, sometimes getting cursed before we even got there and having to abandon the attempt. It was so unbelievably frustrating. It's not even like I was mad at it being too hard, or I wasn't willing to put in the effort, the situation was just super demotivating and, I'd say, not that fun for either of us. There wasn't a fight for loot or anything like what the intention was for the loot system, we just got nothing.

[Mike Garrison]

1) You can replay scenarios, and if you didn't get the chest the first time, it's still there.

2) There is nothing in the chests really make or break. They are worth going after, for sure, and you learn to take a few risks to grab them even when the scenario is in doubt. But nothing really make or break.

3) You get to keep any gold and looted chests from failed scenarios, so if you really need it for something, don't worry about winning and just grab everything you can get.

4) Many scenarios pay some gold just for winning.

[DeMasked]

İlk olarak Cautemoc tarafından gönderildi:

I like how this comment tries to simultaneously say that loot doesn't matter but also the loot is what makes this is a deeply strategic game that cashuls like me can't possibly comprehend.

Loot does matter as it can scale up your power and certain items/enchantments can be very good for certain classes / cards. The balance is between completing the objective, managing your cards / item use, having good positioning / initiative and choosing when you loot / land on coins (among other things I'm sure).

Completing missions or getting chests can sometimes give you gold as well.

[Cautemoc]

İlk olarak Mike Garrison tarafından gönderildi:

1) You can replay scenarios, and if you didn't get the chest the first time, it's still there.

2) There is nothing in the chests really make or break. They are worth going after, for sure, and you learn to take a few risks to grab them even when the scenario is in doubt. But nothing really make or break.

3) You get to keep any gold and looted chests from failed scenarios, so if you really need it for something, don't worry about winning and just grab everything you can get.

4) Many scenarios pay some gold just for winning.

So I guess I just don't understand what the game is wanting me to do. I won the encounter but got almost no character advancement from it. No loot, maybe 2 gold on a couple characters, and 6 exp which is enough to get 1/5th-ish of a level up, no new cards... and then it seems like I should move forward but I can clearly tell the party isn't prepared for a more difficult encounter with no advancement at all.

Should I be replaying the first encounter over and over until we level up? Or get enough money for more gear? Go back to the city and roll city events and hope for the best? Is there any punishment for just redoing encounters and rolling city events? The game doesn't really explain these things at all.

[DeMasked]

İlk olarak Cautemoc tarafından gönderildi:

So I guess I just don't understand what the game is wanting me to do.

Goomhaven is sadly pretty much a puzzle game where you jump in, fail, learn how the puzzle works and then continue on hopefully winning. If you want to optimize coins then you want to position well so that landing on a coin pile can also result in attacking an enemy, or stacking coins piles from multiple enemy deaths while also trying to be a good guy and getting your reputation higher which can lower item costs a bit each level.

While the game has a good base there are a number of issues that do show up and take down the game a notch or two imo.

[Mike Garrison]

So this was the very first scenario? Black Barrow, I think it's called? The game is actually remarkably clear what it wants you to do -- play scenario 2. In fact, I don't think you have any options except to play scenario 2 or replay scenario 1.

It's your game, but I really wouldn't worry about it. You don't level up after every scenario, or even close to that. Maybe on average every three or four scenarios. Some characters level faster than others. "Music Note", for instance, levels crazy-fast.

Just play scenario 2 and keep going. You'll level up when you level up. I guess what we are trying to tell you is to check your assumptions at the door. All the mechanisms you think you know (leveling up, the perk tree, looting gold and buying better gear) just don't work the same way in Gloomhaven as in other games. You can't even access enchantments until you reach a certain point in the story, and you have very few equipment slots at level 1, so there really isn't even all that much right now to spend money on. And you get paid for completing scenario 2, because that's what Jeksera hired you to do, right?

Minor spoiler about scenario 2: There is a treasure chest in scenario 2 that you might not even get access to at all, depending on random card draws from the boss. It's just not a big deal whether you loot or not. Think of it as a stretch goal. Fun to try for, but if you don't get it, well too bad.

[Soteria]

İlk olarak Cautemoc tarafından gönderildi:

So I guess I just don't understand what the game is wanting me to do. I won the encounter but got almost no character advancement from it. No loot, maybe 2 gold on a couple characters, and 6 exp which is enough to get 1/5th-ish of a level up, no new cards... and then it seems like I should move forward but I can clearly tell the party isn't prepared for a more difficult encounter with no advancement at all.

Should I be replaying the first encounter over and over until we level up? Or get enough money for more gear? Go back to the city and roll city events and hope for the best? Is there any punishment for just redoing encounters and rolling city events? The game doesn't really explain these things at all.

The bonus exp for winning is just that--bonus. You should be getting at least that much from abilities used during the scenario. Same with the reward gold.

There's really no need to grind. I guess you could, but why, unless you enjoy it? The game "wants" you to keep trying to complete new scenarios, which will generally give better rewards than redoing a completed one. The difficulty of scenarios is not really linear, either. It's not like the 2nd scenario is significantly harder than the 1st. Depending on party composition and luck, it could be easier.

But really, if it's taking you 5 tries to beat the first scenario, there's either something badly wrong with the way you're playing, or maybe your party composition. Failing the first mission on your first try is normal. 5x, not so much. Didn't you say you're playing with a Tinker? That's a bad idea, particularly with 2p.