Easy is still too difficult

[MG88]

Hello! I've been playing real world Gloomhaven with one other person, so two characters, and we've cleared about 25 quests and a handful of sidequests.

We play on easy difficulty with a Scenario level of 0. With only two characters being played, it's still challenging but beatable and a ton of fun.

But in this game, at easy difficulty, I can't even get past the very first quest with two characters. If I make it to the final room, I hit exhaustion due to running out of cards to play. I'm using the Brute and Mindtheif, a tricky yet really cool combination.

Maybe you guys have some suggestions here, but imo, this is just too hard to progress with only two characters.

[Tursmo]

Maybe you have been playing the real world Gloomhaven with wrong rules if you are having trouble with this version.

If you are exhausting before the end, are you exhausting because you just slowly lose to the time limit from the rests, or are you taking too much damage and having to discard cards?

[LordTheRon]

The campaign is based on the boardgame and I do understand (since it's a cooperative boardgame) they don't want you to cruise through every single scenario. The fun in cooperative boardgames (like ed Pandemic) is that you also lose sometimes, but I have to admit the very first quest of Gloomhaven is tough as nails.

I thought I was there on my first try until the final room opened and I was exhausted. I just got through it on my third attempt on normal, also using a party of 2 (Cragheart and Spellweaver). I followed up on a tip I read not to burn your cards so easily. That was my main mistake the first time. The good thing is that the Spellweaver has a card that can bring back your burnt cards. So for the Spellweaver I burnt quite a few powerful cards (fire orbs is really good) to do a lot of damage and at the right time brought them all back.

With the Cragheart I tried to avoid using burn cards until the last room. That worked for me, but it was still a tight final fight. Perseverance really pays off, so keep at it and don't give up! You'll feel great once you best it. Good luck!

Also good to know that the first mission is one of the harder ones. The second was still tough but also quite a bit easier imho.

[ShifuSen]

You probably already know this since you've played the tabletop version, but you need to save all your burn abilities and use the default 2 attack/2 move instead. I didn't know about this mechanic until I had failed at the dungeon 6 or 7 times thinking I just needed to level up. I was able to clear the first dungeon on normal with about half of my deck left for each mercenary. To be fair though, I am playing a party of 3 with a brute, a scoundrel, and the addition of a tinkerer for heals, which makes the game exponentially easier IMO. Good luck!

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by MG88:

But in this game, at easy difficulty, I can't even get past the very first quest with two characters. If I make it to the final room, I hit exhaustion due to running out of cards to play. I'm using the Brute and Mindtheif, a tricky yet really cool combination.

I had a little play around with this Brute + Mindthief combo after reading your post, though I played insane since that's what I've been playing my campaign on.

My first thought is that I did not like the combo. No healing or ranged damage worth speaking of made things appreciably harder than it needs to be.

The first room was the real crunch, with the elite bandit guard being a real threat with those drawbacks. Getting the very first turn right to avoid damage and set up a good position for control abilities on turn 2 seemed key.

I settled on putting the Brute as far back as it could go, with spare dagger for a decent initiative and a generic move 2 to get out of range if needed afterwards. The Mindthief was blocking one of the spaces in front of the Brute and went with Into the Night and The Mind's Weakness to set up later turns of damage and block one tile of possible attacks on the brute while making the Mindthief invulnerable.

After that it's very much cycling the crowd control on the elite - Provoking Roar from the Brute and the two turn Mindthief Combo of Perverse Edge for stun and ice generation, then next turn Frigid Apparition with the ice for stun. Both characters have push abilities which can be used to get away from an enemy after a crowd control chain ends if needed - punt them into one corner while backing off into the opposite.

The second and third rooms are much easier. Hide the Brute out of line of sight and reasonably far from the door while the Mindthief does scurry & Into the Night to open the door with no personal risk. Push someone into the traps - the archer is a good candidate as it moves forwards - to get the free damage and clear your path.

Items wise I find the boots of striding on the Brute are a big deal for a balanced measure & Grab and Go combo. You can either charge in from 6 tiles away and get in a big hit or run in a circle to get your damage up. Plus it opens up an uber Trample & Balanced Measure for the final room or a tough spot. Other than that survival was an issue for this composition so I took a hide armor and a leather armor respectively and a stamina pot for the Mindthief to round things out.

Burning cards before the last room felt like a real no no, so I basically didn't.

I would assume this tactic would work equally well on lower difficulty. I did record the footage if it's of any use, although without commentary I imagine it's rather dull.

[Goilveig]

Gloomhaven's a fairly tough game. Stamina potions are your friends, and do your best to use them when you will have an even number of cards in your hand after recovering.

Also, and this is a mindthief tip from playing one in tabletop - when you get rid of an augment, it is discarded, not lost/burned. You can choose to remove your active augment at any time (any ongoing effect card can be moved to the discard or burned pile), and you should always discard your augment before long resting if the long rest would otherwise leave you with an odd number of cards afterwards.

A lot of GH is about turn economy - burning cards early can dramatically shorten your active time.

[Xasn]

Originally posted by LordTheRon:

The campaign is based on the boardgame and I do understand (since it's a cooperative boardgame) they don't want you to cruise through every single scenario. The fun in cooperative boardgames (like ed Pandemic) is that you also lose sometimes, but I have to admit the very first quest of Gloomhaven is tough as nails.

I thought I was there on my first try until the final room opened and I was exhausted. I just got through it on my third attempt on normal, also using a party of 2 (Cragheart and Spellweaver). I followed up on a tip I read not to burn your cards so easily. That was my main mistake the first time. The good thing is that the Spellweaver has a card that can bring back your burnt cards. So for the Spellweaver I burnt quite a few powerful cards (fire orbs is really good) to do a lot of damage and at the right time brought them all back.

With the Cragheart I tried to avoid using burn cards until the last room. That worked for me, but it was still a tight final fight. Perseverance really pays off, so keep at it and don't give up! You'll feel great once you best it. Good luck!

Also good to know that the first mission is one of the harder ones. The second was still tough but also quite a bit easier imho.

I had exactly the same experience. Played with a friend, both never played GH before. 4 characters. Failed first time because of using too much many burned cards. Then beat it on the second try. Its hard but doable once you know the mechanics. But still the difficulty curve could use some work.

And I really realy hate the x0 damage modifier mechanics. Im fine gettting -2 but getting x0 is so unfun. Feels like its just wasting my time. ♥♥♥♥ now I need another round to finish the enemy. Its ANNOYING not challenging. I rather they ditched the x0 and x2.

[Bulldozer]

This game throws you to the deep end of the pool from the start. It also happens alot in the game later too anyway.

Wonder why curse scenarios give you three 0x curse cards when blessing only gives two 2x? Rather two of both to be more balanced? Or the statuses would just cancel each other?

I am currently playing with a mod that adds a card slot and (another that) makes enchants cheaper, but with Normal difficulty. Still difficult lol, have not unlocked new characters though yet

[Merlin]

Try Guildmaster mode, it has better difficulty curve.

[Astral Projection]

I never played the table-top but in 15 hours or so picked up a few things. Some other more experienced folks can probably add much more:

- do Guildmaster mode first
- do not rest unless you have hardly any cards left (preferably none)
- Stamina potion should be first item on everyone
- never long rest unless absolutely necessary (i've yet to find a need to)
- do not play cards that burn (fire symbol on lower right) too early unless it gives huge advantage
- when there is only 1-2 mobs left in an area have someone already running to the next door
- open doors, then step back out of LOS, allow the mobs to approach you

I've been running 4 party members only. Not sure if that makes it easier ...

[MG88]

Thank you all for the support and suggestions! They have all been quite helpful. I'm still not able to beat the first quest, but man, I came extremely close. I needed to do one damage to the last skeleton on my very last turn, and I got the dreaded 'miss' modifier and lost lol.

I was definitely burning cards too early, leaving my MindThief with only a few cards left in the last room. The Brute is a bit easier to manage, so I'm going to try a different tactic with the Mindthief to see if I can get him to do a bit more damage, rather than playing range. I'll just need to dip in, get a hit, and either push or dip out.

Despite not being able to beat this quest yet, It's still really awesome to be playing this on PC and I'm still enjoying the challenge. I'm almost there =P

I do have to say though, fighting an Elite in the very first room with only two characters feels cheap. I think this is probably the main reason this first quest is tough. It forces you to make very big decisions right off the bat, and being the first quest, I would think it would be a nice intro to see the progression of the game rather than a struggle of trial and error. I didn't have nearly this much trouble in the tabletop game. I'm also pretty unlucky with the city and road events, so going in with less health or a curse doesn't help =P

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by Astral Projection:

I never played the table-top but in 15 hours or so picked up a few things. Some other more experienced folks can probably add much more:

- do Guildmaster mode first
- do not rest unless you have hardly any cards left (preferably none)
- Stamina potion should be first item on everyone
- never long rest unless absolutely necessary (i've yet to find a need to)
- do not play cards that burn (fire symbol on lower right) too early unless it gives huge advantage
- when there is only 1-2 mobs left in an area have someone already running to the next door
- open doors, then step back out of LOS, allow the mobs to approach you

I've been running 4 party members only. Not sure if that makes it easier ...

The long resting vs. short resting is situational. Long resting can be very beneficial in a number of scenarios:

1. It refreshes "tapped" items, which can be incredibly powerful. Any tanky character should almost always be long resting to untap armor and shields.
2. Retaliate still works during a long rest, so you can still deal damage just by receiving attacks.
3. There are times where you don't need everyone's turn, and long resting keeps you alive an extra round. Particularly in a 4-player game with not a lot of monsters in the current room, having 3 players act and 1 player long rest is usually just as good as all four acting, since very commonly you'll overkill things and the last one to act has little productive to do with their turn except basic move.
4. There are some classes that can give almost as much benefit by skipping their turn as taking it. "Music notes" would be the most extreme example, where long resting is basically a non-issue (and something you would always do to stretch out their smaller hand size).
5. And, of course, most obviously it gives you freedom to choose what card is lost.

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by MG88:

I was definitely burning cards too early, leaving my MindThief with only a few cards left in the last room. The Brute is a bit easier to manage, so I'm going to try a different tactic with the Mindthief to see if I can get him to do a bit more damage, rather than playing range. I'll just need to dip in, get a hit, and either push or dip out.

My first tabletop character was a mindthief, and I definitely played him almost always in melee. Understanding initiative targeting is key. I did get extremely lucky in that we got an item (#105), I believe from one of our first city events, that was incredibly useful in keeping the mindthief alive in melee combat.

The Mind's Weakness is basically the bread-and-butter of how I played the mindthief. That was almost always the top action of turn 1 (and the top action of any turn after I discarded it before a rest). It turns your generic Attack 2 into a generic Attack 4, which is honestly incredible for a level 1 to be able to play literally any card in their hands as an Attack 4, and for utility I'd very commonly do Perverse Edge on one turn to raise Frost and then Frigid Apparition for an attack 5 stun. Scurry is amazing for a Move 3 Attack 3 as a top action, and Submissive Affliction can be incredible if you can stack inflictions (at the very least you should buy a poison dagger to apply poison once per long rest).

[Hawkwind]

The first mission is far to difficult. I try it until now for four times and there was no chance for me to end the mission. 17 enemys for my 4 people, all have a lot of life points and very often my people deal zero damage. I like games which are not to easy but this is unfair and there is no fun. Sorry.

[MG88]

I was finally able to beat it. The key, at least for me, was totally saving as many cards for that last room as possible. I cleared the first room with no damage taken and used a long rest before entering the second room. I screwed up the order of my next turn, so that was a wash lol. Then, I entered the second room, pushed the dude on the left wall into the spikes (easy kill) and took out the other warrior dude the next turn. The archer always seems to be a struggle, but took her out the next turn.

Because the MindThief was almost out of cards, I kind of sacrificed him and rushed him into the next room. I was able to keep him alive for two turns in there, taking out an archer and a skeleton but he was exhausted after that. I shielded my Brute then went in, using retaliation against the skeleton and dagger/trample to take out the last archer.

Man, what a struggle that was. I had to play these characters completely different here than the tabletop version mainly due to the difficulty, but it was still a lot of fun. This was a lot tougher than what I was expecting, but man do I love this game.

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by Goilveig:

The long resting vs. short resting is situational. Long resting can be very beneficial in a number of scenarios:

Yeah, with this Mindthief + Brute combo you're going to need some long rests.

2 HP heal and refreshing even a basic hide armor (which I took before this first mission) means an effective +4HP per long rest, refreshing the boots equates to +dmg to an attack with balanced measure and you get total control of retaining your best cards. 4HP and 2dmg is one of the strongest turns the Brute can play at level 1 in a party that totally lacks healing.

Overall I'd probably aim for between 50% and 70% long rests, but it's bang on the money to say it's situational. Zero or one non-lethal enemy in combat range? Probably long rest. Dangerous elite nearby? Short rest for sure.