Bug: Card enchantments not carrying forward

[MikeyMooCow]

I had a character that i put enchantments on and then retired, when I recreated the class the card enchantments are not there. The enchantments are supposed to be permanent on the class and be present on subsequent character creations.

[Fringehunter7719]

Likely never, would be my guess.

If they develop a Frosthaven sequel adaptation then I'd expect those changes to be in that from day 1.

[RbdPanda]

Първоначално публикувано от Bulldozer:

Първоначално публикувано от RbdPanda:

Considering the change, cost of enhancements should be reduced. By the time you get around to adding enhancements, most characters are probably close to retiring

There is a mod that reduces enchant cost just because of this

You can't use modded rules in multiplayer though

[TowerWizard]

Първоначално публикувано от Les White:

They actually don't cost much at all, relative to their power.

But they do cost much, relative to getting that amount of cash. How DO you get together 150 gold to buy the "any element" enhancement, for example? Replay old scenarios over and over just to get money? I don't get it.

[Cryptic]

Yeah I made a post about this and have fanboys attacking me because I don't like the change.

Silly me for having an opinion of my own!

[Bahamut]

Първоначално публикувано от Tykk:

Първоначално публикувано от Slow Dog:

Some did, yes. But it's a change wanted by the designer of the board game, who only made enhancements permanent because of the physical limitation of using unremovable stickers.

It means no-one gets stuck with the poor choices of the a previous user.

I also think (and this is just my opinion) that the retirement system was always intended to remove money from the game, and the enhancement loophole was an oversight.

i actually don't mind being able to refund enhancements, It's them being removed when a character retires that is the issue. It defeats the point of enhancing cards before retirement.

Also, what we were told about Isaac's approval, was the ability to remove enhancements. Their complete loss when retiring is a whole different beast.

How ? The point of enchanting cards is to make the mercenary using them stronger, the card remaining enchanted ad eternum make no sense and is simply because you use stickers in the physical version of the game. Since I never did use any stickers and instead noted the cards I had enchanted I never carried enchantments forwards.

I mean it was pretty obvious the intention wasn't for you to play a new game with ppl who never played Gloomhaven and them hand them a complete set of absolutely overpowered enchanted cards cause you already beat the game 380 times yourself. It's pretty obvious were it not for the insistency of using Legacy elements where none was needed that the system wouldn't be as it originally was.

[TowerWizard]

Първоначално публикувано от Bahamut:

How ? The point of enchanting cards is to make the mercenary using them stronger, the card remaining enchanted ad eternum make no sense and is simply because you use stickers in the physical version of the game.

I agree, but I think that the fact that they worked that way in the physical board game made Isaak evaluate their worth higher, and thus had the cost of enhancements at a higher cost, than if the stickers could be removed. I guess the only way to know is to ask Isaac.

[PapaGiorgio]

One thing to consider about enhancements in Gloomhaven is that they were added VERY late in development to the boardgame. The game wasn't really even particularly designed with them in mind, which can perhaps be seen in some things like the apparently undesired persistence of enhancements for future characters, and some...unfortunate choices of enhancement dots (see: cursenado)

And really, enhancements persisting did lead to some undesirable behavior, in my eyes. Sometimes I'd avoid buying items I wanted to save up for a really big enhancement. Not because I was really planning to use the enhancement, I would be retiring just as or just after I got the enhancement, but for the next person playing the class, if anyone even played it in the future.

If enhancements don't persist, I can simply make decisions on what benefits the character the most and not try to game things for some future character that may never even come to be.

All that said, I do agree that enhancements are probably too expensive in general if they don't persist. Mostly when enhancing cards above level 1, I think level 1 costs are mostly fine.

I'm curious to see how Frosthaven handles enhancement costs. Especially since while gold exists in Frosthaven, it isn't as central as a resource. Maybe enhancements are the primary way to spend gold there.

[Goat of Death]

I agree this change was terrible. If you search the mods in the Workshop there is one that at least reduces the cost of enhancements to try to counter balance that. The modder said, when talking to the devs, they claimed the reset behavior on enhancements was hard coded in a way it could not be modded out.

It's a really awful change and I hate it. I also wish they had included the envelope X stuff and just gave the reward. The game's several years old at this point, so having the extra scenarios and the reward from it in digital would have been really nice.

[Stone]

Ouch, this wasn't good news for me. It takes away a huge part of the campaign legacy mechanic. This hurts and it totally makes me to NOT want to play campaign in digital.

I was really disappointed when I retired my Scoundrel yesterday and expected to do the cleanup and some juicy enchantments but just got kicked back to the world map.

[Bahamut]

Първоначално публикувано от TowerWizard:

Първоначално публикувано от Bahamut:

How ? The point of enchanting cards is to make the mercenary using them stronger, the card remaining enchanted ad eternum make no sense and is simply because you use stickers in the physical version of the game.

I agree, but I think that the fact that they worked that way in the physical board game made Isaak evaluate their worth higher, and thus had the cost of enhancements at a higher cost, than if the stickers could be removed. I guess the only way to know is to ask Isaac.

I agree with them being overpriced cause of that.

[Stone]

Първоначално публикувано от Bahamut:

Първоначално публикувано от TowerWizard:

I agree, but I think that the fact that they worked that way in the physical board game made Isaak evaluate their worth higher, and thus had the cost of enhancements at a higher cost, than if the stickers could be removed. I guess the only way to know is to ask Isaac.

I agree with them being overpriced cause of that.

I actually agree that the reasoning here make sense. I think that maybe they should have just skipped the enchantment part and focused on other parts, if they didn't intend to actually support it. I guess the "Legacy" part wasn't focused on. It's not one of Gloomhaven's strongest parts but made the setting feel deeper. Can a mod cut the costs to half or more perhaps?

An easy design question would have been "How & Why would I enchant a Level 9 card with a expensive effect that costs 350 Gold or more?"

[TowerWizard]

Like I asked before, I have no idea how you are even supposed to get 150 gold. It is not like many scenarios give gold as rewards, so you have to rely on picking up gold piles. but 50 gold piles for one enchantment? Feels bad man :(

[Piankhi]

I also agree that removing the enhancement persistency, while keeping the cost the same isn't good.

[Lampros]

Първоначално публикувано от Piankhi:

I also agree that removing the enhancement persistency, while keeping the cost the same isn't good.

Devs in general are far more interested in nerfing ver-powered stuff than boosting under-powered stuff. It's an almost universal phenomenon. And it frustrates gamers to no end.

[Les White]

Първоначално публикувано от TowerWizard:

Първоначално публикувано от Les White:

They actually don't cost much at all, relative to their power.

But they do cost much, relative to getting that amount of cash. How DO you get together 150 gold to buy the "any element" enhancement, for example? Replay old scenarios over and over just to get money? I don't get it.

You play on higher difficulty. 5-6g per coin drop adds up extraordinarily quickly.

There are a couple camps of people playing this game right now - the people who are saying "Even on easy, the game is too hard" and then there are people who are annoyed that Guildmaster mode capped us at +2 difficulty.

Not everything in every game is for everyone.