Gaming to "keep" characters through re-rolling retirement goals?

[Lampros]

It looks like you roll different retirement goals with each character creation. Does this then mean you can simply create/delete until you get the retirement goal that is hard to fulfill, if you want to keep a character?

[DeathAxe]

The whole point of retirement is some of the retirements conditions unlock one of the locked characters and while you can certainly re-roll a basic starting character it may be more fun with the locked characters.

Also in the boardgame if you retire a character that hasn't been retired before more city and road events get unlocked.

So play how you want but you may decide to play something different as the game progresses.

[Magyar5j]

Short answer = Yes. You can delete characters and re-create them to get the retirement goals you require.

However, consider the consequences of what you may be doing. Every character you retire creates multiple benefits. 1) It increase Gloomhaven's prosperity. 2). It gives that mercenary an additional perk point when you play them again. 3). Enhancements on your cards are permanent for that class (haven't tested this yet but in the board game this is the case). 4) Unlocks some unique items, scenarios, and very powerful mercenaries (looking at you Berserker and Soothsinger!)

When I first read how retirement is forced, I didn't like the idea but have since come to understand and appreciate the benefits of it. Nothing is stopping you from creating another mercenary of the exact same type and playing them again!

[Lampros]

Originally posted by DeathAxe:

The whole point of retirement is some of the retirements conditions unlock one of the locked characters and while you can certainly re-roll a basic starting character it may be more fun with the locked characters.

Also in the boardgame if you retire a character that hasn't been retired before more city and road events get unlocked.

So play how you want but you may decide to play something different as the game progresses.

I realize that. I am assuming once I am done unlocking the characters I'd want to use. And there aren't that many over-powered unlockables, are there? I keep hearing Three Spears, Music Note, and Eclipse - and nothing much else.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Magyar5j:

Short answer = Yes. You can delete characters and re-create them to get the retirement goals you require.

However, consider the consequences of what you may be doing. Every character you retire creates multiple benefits. 1) It increase Gloomhaven's prosperity. 2). It gives that mercenary an additional perk point when you play them again. 3). Enhancements on your cards are permanent for that class (haven't tested this yet but in the board game this is the case). 4) Unlocks some unique items, scenarios, and very powerful mercenaries (looking at you Berserker and Soothsinger!)

When I first read how retirement is forced, I didn't like the idea but have since come to understand and appreciate the benefits of it. Nothing is stopping you from creating another mercenary of the exact same type and playing them again!

I've been told Enhancements in the digital version are character-only. And I've already addressed unlocking new classes: I am assuming I've unlocked everything I'd want to use.

[Magyar5j]

No mercenary is "overpowered". Even the legendary music note mercenary has it's own set of weaknesses (very very very bad for 2 man parties). Once you get enough items, experience, levels, and class support, come mercenaries can do some amazing things. I've used the Lightning bolt class to do over 220 damage on a single turn to an entire room but it took a LONG time to get the items, mercenary support, and enhancements to make this happen.

One of the enjoyable aspects of Gloomhaven is that the dynamic of the game changes greatly based on party size. 2 Merc compositions need damage to succeed or they will exhaust due to card loss. 3 Merc compositions need a good balance of damage and healing and support. 4 Merc compositions have the greatest flexibility but, have to deal with the toughest enemies and largest number of enemies. The eclipse class isn't great in 4 man compositions as it's a purely single target, assassin type class. Eclipse has a much greater impact in a 2 merc composition with fewer enemies and less chance of bad draws and elite enemies with powerful shields and abilities nailing him down. The opposite is true of the Music Note class. In 3 merc parties, it's very good. In 4 merc parties it's absolutely brilliant.

I encourage you to experiment with party sizes and find what you enjoy and play the mercenaries that you enjoy!

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Magyar5j:

No mercenary is "overpowered". Even the legendary music note mercenary has it's own set of weaknesses (very very very bad for 2 man parties). Once you get enough items, experience, levels, and class support, come mercenaries can do some amazing things. I've used the Lightning bolt class to do over 220 damage on a single turn to an entire room but it took a LONG time to get the items, mercenary support, and enhancements to make this happen.

One of the enjoyable aspects of Gloomhaven is that the dynamic of the game changes greatly based on party size. 2 Merc compositions need damage to succeed or they will exhaust due to card loss. 3 Merc compositions need a good balance of damage and healing and support. 4 Merc compositions have the greatest flexibility but, have to deal with the toughest enemies and largest number of enemies. The eclipse class isn't great in 4 man compositions as it's a purely single target, assassin type class. Eclipse has a much greater impact in a 2 merc composition with fewer enemies and less chance of bad draws and elite enemies with powerful shields and abilities nailing him down. The opposite is true of the Music Note class. In 3 merc parties, it's very good. In 4 merc parties it's absolutely brilliant.

I encourage you to experiment with party sizes and find what you enjoy and play the mercenaries that you enjoy!

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

So you are hinting that 3-man parties might be the most balanced - especially for a beginner like me to learn? ;)

[Syrris]

In addition to class unlocks, retirements contribute to the city's Prosperity rating, which you're unlikely to cap out until long after you've unlocked every character type, and you also get a random side scenario and item design (if any are left) the second (or third) time that a class is unlocked, so it's liable to take much longer than you think.

That said, there are a number of retirement goals that are avoidable - but some of them are likely to be used up by the time you've unlocked all of the classes, nevermind the rest. In the board game, once you're completely out of retirement goals, characters don't retire anymore; the digital version apparently recycles some of the retirement goals, but I don't know whether that includes any of the avoidable ones.

[Magyar5j]

Hehe. They are the most forgiving for new players IMO. A bad decision or bad ability draw in a 2 merc game can be devastating with little chance of a comeback (I got just hammered in a 2 merc game on the mindthief and had to discard too many cards to complete the scenario).

Once you get some practice and familiarity with the game, (especially learning how to abuse initiative!!) you can challenge yourself by upping the difficulty or combining mercs that don't always work well together.

[Syrris]

Two-character also depends very heavily on just which two characters you're using. Of the starting set, Brute/Scoundrel is solid and relatively easy to work with, but Scoundrel/Spellweaver is the infamous cursed combo that will have you throwing things at the monitor before long.

A physcial game play-through I did involved a Cragheart/Tinker pairing for the first dozen or so missions, and that turned out to be a really good combination as well - they've got some nice synergy, and the large hand size on both of them gives you more room for error.

Three-character and four-character groups are less susceptible to bad matchups. (You can still get them if you go out of your way to make it happen, but otherwise you'll almost always have at least a couple of characters that are able to play off of each other effectively.)

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Syrris:

In the board game, once you're completely out of retirement goals, characters don't retire anymore; the digital version apparently recycles some of the retirement goals, but I don't know whether that includes any of the avoidable ones.

I do not understand why the devs made the digital version so player-unfriendly. One of the fundamental aspects of an RPG is that you get attached to your characters. Making them disposable - especially more than was the case on the tabletop original - makes little sense.

[Syrris]

Gloomhaven is a legacy game. Rather than a set cast, it's a generational story in which characters come and go, with their successors picking up where they left off.

Retired characters may also put in a reappearance (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) in city/road events - ones that are only added to the deck with their retirement - so they don't drop off of the planet; they're just doing other things than mercenary adventure work.

[Scr(A)tch]

Originally posted by Magyar5j:

No mercenary is "overpowered". Even the legendary music note mercenary has it's own set of weaknesses (very very very bad for 2 man parties). Once you get enough items, experience, levels, and class support, come mercenaries can do some amazing things. I've used the Lightning bolt class to do over 220 damage on a single turn to an entire room but it took a LONG time to get the items, mercenary support, and enhancements to make this happen.

One of the enjoyable aspects of Gloomhaven is that the dynamic of the game changes greatly based on party size. 2 Merc compositions need damage to succeed or they will exhaust due to card loss. 3 Merc compositions need a good balance of damage and healing and support. 4 Merc compositions have the greatest flexibility but, have to deal with the toughest enemies and largest number of enemies. The eclipse class isn't great in 4 man compositions as it's a purely single target, assassin type class. Eclipse has a much greater impact in a 2 merc composition with fewer enemies and less chance of bad draws and elite enemies with powerful shields and abilities nailing him down. The opposite is true of the Music Note class. In 3 merc parties, it's very good. In 4 merc parties it's absolutely brilliant.

I encourage you to experiment with party sizes and find what you enjoy and play the mercenaries that you enjoy!

I'm not a veteran of this game but I found Eclipse to be very good in 4 Merc teams, precisely because there are powerful elite enemies with 20+ hp he can remove instantly. Shields just don't matter. What kind of abilities would prevent him from using his insta-kill? Not to mention he can easily block doors when invisible which is invaluable albeit cheesy.

I'm focusing damage with single target attacks, AOE seem nice when the room is filled with enemies but when every one of them has 3 or 4 shields, they don't deal enough damage to pass through, much less remove a threat before it has a chance to attack. I do use the AOE crowd controls of Music Note though.

Also I'm playing on hard and wondering about insane for some challenge.