Advantage issue: Element modifiers vs. Failure

[matthias.leese]

I recently experienced a strange issue (on multiple occasions) where, when attacking with advantage, the attack options were (1) initial attack plus element modifier or (2) failure. Instead of opting for (1), the game decided that failure would be the advantageous outcome. This is quite the bummer, especially in close game situations, where you build up a strong attack and then intend to finish it off safely with advantage. Devs: would you mind fixing this? :)

[Teensies_King]

If the elemental modifier you drew was a rolling one (for example the Spellweaver's bottom 2 perks), this is intended behavior. Whenever you have advantage, you'll start by drawing 2 modifiers. If neither are rolling, you take the better result. If exactly one is rolling (does not matter which one) it is added to the non-rolling modifier. If both are rolling, you continue to draw until you hit a non-rolling and add them all together. Now, since you only draw one non-rolling modifier, if you draw at least one rolling, this does mean you can miss with advantage, but it also means you can crit with disadvantage.

I'm not sure this is stated anywhere in the game currently, but it would be something at is nice to have in the full release. In the meantime, you can see an example of this on the bottom of page 20 of the rulebook.

[matthias.leese]

Thanks for clarifying. It doesn't make much sense, though, does it?

If I recall correctly, the German language version of the rule book essentially says that every time you attack with advantage, you reveal both possible attack chains entirely and then pick the one you prefer (as the benefit of modifiers can be ambiguous based on play, character, and general preference). At least to me, this would be how "advantage" should work :)

[abyssalfury]

I think it's less a matter of how Advantage works, and more an issue with how Rolling Modifiers work.

Anyway, my understanding is it's a pretty common complaint, and a lot of people house rule it in the physical game. I think there's also been talk about them changing it in Frosthaven, so maybe we saw an optional rule or something in the future?

[matthias.leese]

Curious to see whether it will indeed be changed in Frosthaven. In any case, for the time being I won't be banking on advantage as a safe bet in critical play situations :)

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by matthias.leese:

If I recall correctly, the German language version of the rule book essentially says that every time you attack with advantage, you reveal both possible attack chains entirely and then pick the one you prefer

I've not seen the German rulebook, but I doubt it. Lots of people read the English version as if it says that, but it doesn't.

I've seen a Frosthaven developer/playtester say the Advantage and Rolling Mod "problem" has been fixed in Frosthaven, but wasn't (yet) allowed to say how.

[matthias.leese]

At least when it comes to the digital game, the problem doesn't seem to be limited to rolling modifiers, btw. The other day, on an advantage attack I drew (1) +1 and (2) +1 Wound (non-rolling). The game went with (1). In which world is that the better one?

[Drake]

Originally posted by matthias.leese:

At least when it comes to the digital game, the problem doesn't seem to be limited to rolling modifiers, btw. The other day, on an advantage attack I drew (1) +1 and (2) +1 Wound (non-rolling). The game went with (1). In which world is that the better one?

It's because of the rule, extra effect on cards don't count for advantage, only numeric values. So you drew +1 and +1, they're the same so you pick the first by default. You get the +1 wound if you pick it first.

[Slow Dog]

Originally posted by matthias.leese:

The other day, on an advantage attack I drew (1) +1 and (2) +1 Wound (non-rolling). The game went with (1). In which world is that the better one?

It isn't. That's a bug, if it happened as you say.

Any effect is "a positive undefined value". So stun and wound and muddle and frost (etc) are unknowable. Which means 1+wound and 1+stun would be ambiguous, and the first drawn chosen. But 1 + effect is higher than 1, so should have be chosen.

[WorthlessKoridian]

I really wish the game was moddable to the point of being able to change how advantage works with rolling mods (such as to work with the commonly house-ruled two-stack situation) but it seems to be beyond the scope of what modders can do. As for now, we just have to deal with rollings and advantage having very wonky synergy. :(

[NexusImpulse]

There are still bugs with advantage. I have pulled a (1) hit card -1,0,0+1 etc.. and (2) a miss with advantage and it picks the miss. My whole party has seen this many times. Its the biggest problem with the game for us .

[Gregstrom]

Frosthaven has rewritten the advantage rules; are the dev team considering them?