Burnt vs lost

[Neo Scully]

Is "burnt" the new "lost" and if so why not keeping the original definition or the symbol? I am a new player and it took me a while to understand that it actually means the same (or doesn't it?). Are there more changes to other things? Why i.e. is the layout of the cards different? I am playing the PC version because I hoped that it is exactly the same as the board game, why else should I do that? :)

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

The card layout seems exactly the same to me.

"burn" is a common unofficial term that players tend to use. That being said, they should probably use the official terminology.

[Valmar]

The only big difference (other than bugs) I saw, which indeed may be gamechanging is the stamina potions. They are less useful here than in the boardgame. You recover one less card with them here than in the boardgame.

[Dornak]

This matches the 2nd edition of the board game. The developer of that agreed that stamina potions ion the 1st edition were overpowered.

[Valmar]

Originally posted by Dornak:

This matches the 2nd edition of the board game. The developer of that agreed that stamina potions ion the 1st edition were overpowered.

No, this is false. I mean, stamina potions are of course overpowered (and I even agree on houseruling them, and I am happy enough to use the "new" version cause yes, theyre ooverpowered as hell), but the board game, even the most recent reprint still has the old values. And officialy, developer has not changed it. He months ago said he would probably change them in the future, but he has not yet do it.

So no, stamina potions here do not much the boardgame, any edition of it.

[Darkshape]

Originally posted by Valmar:

Originally posted by Dornak:

This matches the 2nd edition of the board game. The developer of that agreed that stamina potions ion the 1st edition were overpowered.

No, this is false. I mean, stamina potions are of course overpowered (and I even agree on houseruling them, and I am happy enough to use the "new" version cause yes, theyre ooverpowered as hell), but the board game, even the most recent reprint still has the old values. And officialy, developer has not changed it. He months ago said he would probably change them in the future, but he has not yet do it.

So no, stamina potions here do not much the boardgame, any edition of it.

The FAQ (found online) includes the weaker stamina potion iteration, and not the actual printed version of the 2nd ED. As far as I am aware, there are no printed cards with the current official FAQ values.

I have the opinion that the 1/2 is the more balanced version of the potions, rather than the 2/3 strength ones. Anyone who has played (Triple Spears) would understand why.

[Valmar]

Well, what the FAQ says is this:

Item 013
Minor Stamina Potion - A future expansion will change this item so that you only recover one discarded card. Players may optionally play with the card that way in the base game if they feel they wish to nerf it. Note that the nerf has been included in some non-english versions of the core game.

So probably we are all right at the end, lol. Probably Dormak owns a non-english 2nd printed version and in his name the potion is nerfed, while I got an english new version which is not. It is said will change in the future, but is not changed YET.


Anyway, we all agree those potions as overpowered, though honestly I think it would be better if the digital version gives you an option to chose which rules you want to use. Just in case some people probably prefer the current (and yet oficial) version.

[Loqaun]

Well even Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion which is new Gloomhaven for casuals have nerfed stamina potions. Probably from now every new print, version and varation of Gloomhaven/Frosthaven will have new stamina potion cards. And you still have option to use old ones via mods. I prefer to play game as designers intended them to be. And if you struggle with difficult level - just lower difficulty or use mod. Stamina potions are too powerful and too cheap anyway.

[Flamingcloud]

The problem was with the cost not the effect.. The drop from 2 to 1 is significant.. Probably enough to make it not worth playing for most classes... I mean a health potion is generally better overall than a return 1 card stamina potion (unless you are a class with 1 card way better than all the rest)

Yes they are overpowered.. but it is because the cost is 10g not because their effect is too strong.

[Dornak]

My bad, we actually have the 2/3 version for our physical game and I thought the new edition went to 1/2, but that was just the FAQ.

[Den of Earth]

Originally posted by catwhowalksbyhimself:

The card layout seems exactly the same to me.

"burn" is a common unofficial term that players tend to use. That being said, they should probably use the official terminology.

Whatever the "official" terminology is, the PC version sometimes calls them "Burned" and sometimes calls the "Lost".

I'm really curious if "Lost" is in fact a different status. Like "really" burned i.e. Sunkeeper's "Brilliant Prayer".

[Slow Dog]

There's no special name for it. The rules just say a card with the appropriate symbol "cannot be recovered or refreshed once lost"

[Les White]

Originally posted by Flamingcloud:

The problem was with the cost not the effect.. The drop from 2 to 1 is significant.. Probably enough to make it not worth playing for most classes... I mean a health potion is generally better overall than a return 1 card stamina potion (unless you are a class with 1 card way better than all the rest)

Yes they are overpowered.. but it is because the cost is 10g not because their effect is too strong.

Yes and no.

The cost made them a no brainer at the start, yes, but the real brokenness is the ability to spam fantastic cards several turns in a row. There is no room that can't be trivialized with 2 Infernos, for example. Or any of the Nightshroud's abilities. This becomes more of an issue the higher level you get.

The nerf makes them more in line with their cost, and their strength. I initially resisted the change, but having played a significant amount of hours now with nerfed cards, they are absolutely, unequivocally better this way.

[ExperimentalGamer]

Originally posted by Den of Earth:

Whatever the "official" terminology is, the PC version sometimes calls them "Burned" and sometimes calls the "Lost".

I'm really curious if "Lost" is in fact a different status. Like "really" burned i.e. Sunkeeper's "Brilliant Prayer".

"Burned" makes it clearer that the card is gone for good. Ask a random person who has never played whether lost or discarded is the one that basically removes from the game, it's a tossup which one they'll get right. Discarded vs. burned, they're more likely to get it right. It's a minor thing, but it's Isaac approved and it improves clarity and that's really all it comes down to.