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Fedup Jun 17, 2023 @ 10:43am
Mandate of Heaven - Emperor walks in and takes my capital!
I was playing the Mandate of Heaven as Liu Chong and all was going mostly fine. Then suddenly, once fine day, the Emperor's army walked into my capital and took it.
JUST
LIKE
THAT.

"Hi Cusin Chong! How is it going over there in the North? Yeah, I am fine too. Nice City there..."

No war declaration. No fight with my army or general. I am STILL allied to the Emperor and I am STILL in the Empire. The general I had inside the city is simply pushed outside and the Emperor's forces are in my capital.

WHAT
THE
####????

Is this a bug?
Is it a superpower of the Emperor of the Han?
I -CAN- trade the city back as I have another city I planned to sell to the Emperor for $$$$. But that would set me back a lot and on top of the other city, the Emperor wants like 10K out of my 25K treasury to give me back MY city, on top of the city I conquered.
The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question.
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Originally posted by panderusw:
I mentioned it before the "normal" chain of events are,
--> Liu Hong died (about turn 27)
--> Empress He took over (turn after Liu Hong death was announced)
--> In-fighting between generals and eunuch (few turns after Empress He took over)
--> Eunuch kill He Jin (Empress He's brother), He Jin generals kill some eunuch and burn down Luoyang capital
--> Around turn 35ish, Doug Zhuo coup and take young emperor as hostage and kick empress He, vassalized the Han Empire(important for annex explanation)
--> Empire dissolved, everyone for themselves.

These are all scripted event, and you get in game announcement, there are no actual moving pieces on the campaign map when all these happen.

Now, you might see me mentioned Han Dynasty and Han Empire. These is how the dev code the game, Han Dynasty is Liu Hong faction, while Han Empire is the passive faction that own a lot of land but has no army. In a nut shell, the way Han rule the land is basically appoint governor to manage the land. Cao Cao, Sun Jian...these big player are nothing more than some kids from gentry clan, rise up, gather some men as army, keep peace where they are located and manage the local. And the Han court recognized them and eventually make them official governor(aka local warlord). They are basically local officer of the empire. But there are a lot of these "governor", so, the dev only coded the dominant one, and lump all other into that passive Han empire. This system result 2 outcome,

-- Liu Hong faction can annex any Han land because those are his land, you basically work for him.
-- When Dong Zhuo took the young emperor hostage, he in turn can annex all "Han Empire" land,remember Han Empire is his vassal, but not your land. The Empire alliance dissolved, and you are not Dong Zhuo's vassal.

In a sense, you still sworn allegiance to the emperor, but not Dong Zhuo, and army under his flag cannot walk in and annex your land. Army with Han Dynasty flag can annex your land but there is no such army anymore.

This work the same to you if you manage to capture the young emperor, you will get a message that you "secure" the emperor, and Han Empire automatically become your vassal, and you can go nut and annex Han empire's land.

Since you still sworn allegiance to the emperor, when he come of age, the Emperor favor system kick in.
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
kaher44 [UN] Jun 17, 2023 @ 12:22pm 
No it happened to me before, if you're under the Empire than he can walk in and take any city he wants. To prevent this you need to leave the empire by going to diplomacy tab, clik on alliances and then "abandon empire" you lose some relations with the empire and others for this but I'm still on good turns with them (turn 262 now-yea taking my sweet time). If you have trouble with yellow turbans let me know I can give you some tips.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2990784366
Last edited by kaher44 [UN]; Jun 17, 2023 @ 12:31pm
#1
Fedup Jun 17, 2023 @ 1:06pm 
I am surrounded by Imperials, I am travelling through various Imperials willy-nilly and there's a duke on my south, one that tried to kill my friend/mentor that is very angry with me for not doing something. Not sure WHAT I did. But he's pretty angry and pretty big while my 2 stacks are in the North.
Furthermore, RP-wise... the guy is my general's... cousin? Nephew? Whatever. His mother was just kicking out people from the Empire, one per turn, till he grew up.
Also, the tab to influence him is grayed-out. I honestly don't want to get out of the Empire. I tried to do that and then jump back in, but they don't want me. :(

If I sell him the other city he simply walks away. I think I will do that and trade it for ... something close to where I want to go. And hope he will choose someone else to absorb.

Furthermore, can I do that to my (future) vassals as well? Walk to their cities and take them? Or I need to use that "Annex vassal" action and take the entire faction?
#2
Fedup Jun 17, 2023 @ 1:08pm 
And another thing, in your screenshot, I see "-20 faction influence". What is this? I have a +20 faction influence because of techs etc. Is that from a future event? Also, you said you're in turn 252. But I still see Liu Chong alive...
#3
kaher44 [UN] Jun 17, 2023 @ 1:29pm 
I been taking slow road, at first just taking yellow turban/rebellions provinces while trying to maintain good relations with most others but now I'm at point where everyone wants to fight me.

Even if I'm fighting other factions who declared war on me first I lose brownie points with the empire for defeating them in battle. Also I'm in mode where the generals don't die from old age. But as you get bigger and gather more territory and destroy other factions you lose faction influence.
#4
Fedup Jun 17, 2023 @ 2:29pm 
Vassalization is the key then. Or at least, a good patch.
#5
kaher44 [UN] Jun 17, 2023 @ 2:37pm 
The vassel's are the ones drawing me into wars, especially the jungle ones. AI is constantly declaring war on them and I have to join in or lose my vassels.
#6
panderusw Jun 17, 2023 @ 3:50pm 
Originally posted by Fedup:

Is this a bug?

It is,
First of all, you are kinda a vassal of the Han Dynasty(Liu Hong faction), Liu Hong, as a emperor himself, his faction can annex any Han Land,

I said it is a bug because in a normal Mandate of Heaven campaign, Liu Hong would die around turns 27ish, then Empress He take over and rule until turn 33 - 36ish, and Dong Zhuo will did a coup and take over Liu Hong's land, hold the young emperor (Liu Xie) hostage and the empire dissolved. These are all scripted events.

What happened in your campaign is the last script did not fire(Dong Zhuo did not take over). And you also win the second prize playing as Liu Chong, as the Han Dynasty always annex Liu Chong land being it is the closest and mostly farmland. (He need to feed that big city, Luoyang).

I would say this bug occurred kinda random(about 20% to all my MOH campaign)
#7
Fedup Jun 17, 2023 @ 11:51pm 
Dong Zhuo was among the first to be kicked out of the Empire by He.
I went all "He He He" when I saw him kicked out.

Should I load baaack to turn 30 or something? I am not sure it is an actual bug because in a sandbox experience it could have happened.

What may be a bug, I think... is Empress He kicking out people from the Empire one by one for no reason I could tell. They don't leave, she kicks them out. Is this a bug?

Furthermore, a question:
Can I "Restore" the Han Empire?
#8
panderusw Jun 18, 2023 @ 1:30am 
It is sort of a "story driven" sandbox experience. The "story" part is the empire has to dissolved, and this is driven by Dong Zhuo event. However, when that did not happened, I guess CA put a safety script in the game, and let the empress start kicking faction off the alliance to simulate the "dissolve" part of the story. Is it a bug or a feature, you decide.

I am guessing you want to restore the Han Empire alliance instead of restore the Ham empire. Because there is a difference,

There is no way to restore the empire alliance,

In your current game, there are no way to restore the Han empire as it never dissolve.

In a normal Mandate Of heaven campaign, there are very specific steps you need to take to capture the young emperor Liu Xie before he come of age(16 years old). So, when he is 16, he will be in your faction, and when you gain enough prestige points to declare emperor, you select "restore ham empire" option and Liu XIe become your faction leader, your faction will call Han empire, and all your flag change to Han flag.
#9
Fedup Jun 18, 2023 @ 2:09am 
That! I want to that! I want to become the Han Empire with that young guy.
Which, incidentally, is the Emperor that stole my town.

So... I will KEEP my save for future more-sandbox-y experience. And load to have the more appealing one where I put the young emperor on top of the Empire and save it.
Will I then be able to walk to people's towns and take them?
#10
dulany67 Jun 18, 2023 @ 4:17am 
Originally posted by panderusw:
Originally posted by Fedup:

Is this a bug?

It is,
First of all, you are kinda a vassal of the Han Dynasty(Liu Hong faction), Liu Hong, as a emperor himself, his faction can annex any Han Land,

I said it is a bug because in a normal Mandate of Heaven campaign, Liu Hong would die around turns 27ish, then Empress He take over and rule until turn 33 - 36ish, and Dong Zhuo will did a coup and take over Liu Hong's land, hold the young emperor (Liu Xie) hostage and the empire dissolved. These are all scripted events.

What happened in your campaign is the last script did not fire(Dong Zhuo did not take over). And you also win the second prize playing as Liu Chong, as the Han Dynasty always annex Liu Chong land being it is the closest and mostly farmland. (He need to feed that big city, Luoyang).

I would say this bug occurred kinda random(about 20% to all my MOH campaign)
I'm using a mod that is supposed to fix the story chain. I saw events that I had never seen before: 1) emperor dies, 2) eunuchs kill (forgot his name), 3) forgotten-name's soldiers break into the palace and kill a bunch of eunuchs, 4) empress seizes empire with help of remaining eunuchs, 5) Dong coups and seizes heir (and presumably kills the empress but it doesn't say).

This happens in the space of 2 or 3 turns. I had not seen this sequence before.
#11
kaher44 [UN] Jun 18, 2023 @ 4:34am 
I seen the event where the imperial General He Jin is killed by the eunuchs and the Empress becomes regent after former emperor's death in normal gameplay. But haven't seen Dong's coup.
#12
Fedup Jun 18, 2023 @ 5:41am 
I have not any mods for the storyline and this time it fired normally, with Empress He being vassalized by Dong Zhuo.

How long do I have to save the young emperor and become emperor?

Originally posted by panderusw:
In a normal Mandate Of heaven campaign, there are very specific steps you need to take to capture the young emperor Liu Xie before he come of age(16 years old). So, when he is 16, he will be in your faction, and when you gain enough prestige points to declare emperor, you select "restore ham empire" option and Liu XIe become your faction leader, your faction will call Han empire, and all your flag change to Han flag.
#13
Fedup Jun 18, 2023 @ 5:45am 
Another question, will Dong Zhuo be killed by Lu Bu? Do I have to go to war with Dong Zhuo and his coalition to save the Emperor? Cause I will be crushed... In the Romance (I mean the books not the other campaing), there was a big coalition of warlords that fought him.
Last edited by Fedup; Jun 18, 2023 @ 5:46am
#14
Mitth'raw'nuruodo Jun 18, 2023 @ 6:28am 
I am fairly sure all these events are based on chance. There is a chance, however small, that certain events do not fire. I guess to make the game a bit unpredictable.

I would say roughly 10% of the time in my experience that Dong Zhuo does not get killed, or the Han Court does not get divided, or characters like Sun Jian or Sun Ce do not die in scripted events.

Originally posted by Fedup:
How long do I have to save the young emperor and become emperor?

Unlimited. Of course, some other warlord may reach "King" rank before you and decide to depose Liu Xie become emperor themselves.
Last edited by Mitth'raw'nuruodo; Jun 18, 2023 @ 6:32am
#15
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Total War: THREE KINGDOMS > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jun 17, 2023 @ 10:43am
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