Why I think historical total war isn't as popular.

[Royale]

In short, modern capitalism.

These games are most designed for people who like history, who have the money to afford gaming, and who have the time to do it. Society does not let a lot of these people exist.

At least here in America, given the poor quality of public education and the demands on our time work puts on us, it's very easy for me to why this game isn't as popular.

I think a lot of people may disagree, especially if they have a marketing degree as this explanation is offensive and simple, but be real, until people have more time to play games and the education to enjoy ones like the historical total wars, Total War's best selling games are going to be popular fantasy titles like Warhammer and probably Lord of the Rings, maybe even Game of Thrones.

This said, I hope CA keep making historical total wars just to continue honoring human history and I appreciate them for creating such educational games.

[ShoGunOni]

i will never buy a fantasy total war while i own all the history total war

[Drunio]

A saying comes to mind. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Three Kingdoms was actually a good shot as its a very romanticized period of time with a lot of gaps being filled with creativity and speculation as portrayed in games such as Dynasty Warriors and Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

But is that enough to compete with the many different factions/styles/units of Warhammer?

There aren't gonna be any dragons, giants, daemon princes, or epic fantasy creatures to keep things interesting. Battles can quickly become stale. Its my biggest struggle with this one.

Historic titles struggle to stay interesting for me. Gotta keep the history and a balanced/fun game at the same time. They tried the different time period starts, but honestly that hurt the game more than anything in my opinion. They then had multiple campaigns to balance/debug/expand which is next to impossible when they were already struggling to do this for a single map.

A fun game for a few playthroughs, but I've lost count of how many Warhammer playthroughs I've had over the years.

To put it simply. Its more fun to have an epic fantasy battle than a historic one.

[Raymond]

yeah that's nice and all but I think you post on the wrong forum. 3K isn't a historical TW but part of the fantasy TW cohort. Literally every Historical TW fans can agree on that, as they have been very vocal about how "unrealistic" this game was when it was launched. I still remember how volound subreddit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this game non-stop while 3k was becoming the 2nd most selling title in the franchise. Absolutely hilarious.

[Royale]

Originally posted by ShoGunOni:

i will never buy a fantasy total war while i own all the history total war

Why not? I get it if you love the historical games and I'm loving 3k, but Total Warhammer is still my fav just because of scale and how it respects the lore.

[Royale]

Originally posted by Drunio:

A saying comes to mind. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Three Kingdoms was actually a good shot as its a very romanticized period of time with a lot of gaps being filled with creativity and speculation as portrayed in games such as Dynasty Warriors and Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

But is that enough to compete with the many different factions/styles/units of Warhammer?

There aren't gonna be any dragons, giants, daemon princes, or epic fantasy creatures to keep things interesting. Battles can quickly become stale. Its my biggest struggle with this one.

Historic titles struggle to stay interesting for me. Gotta keep the history and a balanced/fun game at the same time. They tried the different time period starts, but honestly that hurt the game more than anything in my opinion. They then had multiple campaigns to balance/debug/expand which is next to impossible when they were already struggling to do this for a single map.

A fun game for a few playthroughs, but I've lost count of how many Warhammer playthroughs I've had over the years.

To put it simply. Its more fun to have an epic fantasy battle than a historic one.

Long term yeah though I would love total warhammer to implement 3k mechanics down the line.

[Royale]

Originally posted by Raymond:

yeah that's nice and all but I think you post on the wrong forum. 3K isn't a historical TW but part of the fantasy TW cohort. Literally every Historical TW fans can agree on that, as they have been very vocal about how "unrealistic" this game was when it was launched. I still remember how volound subreddit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this game non-stop while 3k was becoming the 2nd most selling title in the franchise. Absolutely hilarious.

I would label it as a historical title in the same way Troy and Pharoh is. Sure you can play with fantasy elements but not doing that is an option too. Like in 3k you have records mode.

[mlmcdougal]

Originally posted by ShoGunOni:

i will never buy a fantasy total war while i own all the history total war

Depends on your definition of "fantasy". If you mean, the mythical creatures of the WarHammer series, I can somewhat agree with you... Bought the first 2, didn't like them that much and the 3rd one is just a DLC money pit. Never bothered with it.

Total War Three Kingdoms is based on an historical Civil War period in Chinese history, much like the factions laid out in Shogun 2 for Japan, with the biggest difference being the Character system, which is expanded on steroids. Since these characters (over 700 in game) can be molded and configured to your particular play style, the replay value is immense, even for a single faction. Get it on sale if nothing else.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by Royale:

I would label it as a historical title in the same way Troy and Pharoh is. Sure you can play with fantasy elements but not doing that is an option too. Like in 3k you have records mode.

apparently Historical fans don't care about stuffs like record mode so long as it's in the same game as romance mode, and you are only one guy.

All this goes to show you the real reason why historical side of TW is declining and why no other studios is stepping in to replace CA in this gaming niche. Historical fans are extremely picky, very demanding and spend very little, and there are not a whole lot of them for CA to profit from. Every new historical TW titles CA release have to directly compete with each and every iteration of older historical TW games. At some point the cost to make a historical TW game that is good enough to get historical fans to play new game outweight the profit CA could make from these players. You can tell because no other studios have even bother to even make a TW copycat, despite source codes for historical TW games are widely available.

And make no mistake, CA's falling out with historical TW fans is not a recent event. It's an ongoing drama that dragged on since Empire release. CA started throwing the towel when rome 2, the game that they sunk their entire studio into debt to make, failed to make sale. Atilla was the point CA started looking for new pasture, and Troy/Pharaoh's failure was the final nail in coffin for historical TW genre.

Whatever reason why historical fans are changing their and start demanding CA to release a new historical game? I do not know. But I know for sure CA is no longer making any historical TW whatsoever. Many of their senior devs that played crucial role developing old school TWs like med 2 have already quit CA following the WH3 price hike debacle last year. CA's attempt to get more money from fantasy fans to salvage their underperforming historical team backfired, so they end up laying off their auxillery dev team and historical team altogether. At this point historical TW is already dead, and CA basically filled a divorced with their historical fanbase after 20 years of rocky relationship.

[Darth Alpharius]

Fantasy was a new out of the Linear box of ideas that Total War Originally used over and over again since Shogun Total War, but when people expect Original Historical they get Games that have Fantasy Total War blood in it.

[Royale]

Originally posted by Raymond:

Originally posted by Royale:

I would label it as a historical title in the same way Troy and Pharoh is. Sure you can play with fantasy elements but not doing that is an option too. Like in 3k you have records mode.

apparently Historical fans don't care about stuffs like record mode so long as it's in the same game as romance mode, and you are only one guy.

All this goes to show you the real reason why historical side of TW is declining and why no other studios is stepping in to replace CA in this gaming niche. Historical fans are extremely picky, very demanding and spend very little, and there are not a whole lot of them for CA to profit from. Every new historical TW titles CA release have to directly compete with each and every iteration of older historical TW games. At some point the cost to make a historical TW game that is good enough to get historical fans to play new game outweight the profit CA could make from these players. You can tell because no other studios have even bother to even make a TW copycat, despite source codes for historical TW games are widely available.

And make no mistake, CA's falling out with historical TW fans is not a recent event. It's an ongoing drama that dragged on since Empire release. CA started throwing the towel when rome 2, the game that they sunk their entire studio into debt to make, failed to make sale. Atilla was the point CA started looking for new pasture, and Troy/Pharaoh's failure was the final nail in coffin for historical TW genre.

Whatever reason why historical fans are changing their and start demanding CA to release a new historical game? I do not know. But I know for sure CA is no longer making any historical TW whatsoever. Many of their senior devs that played crucial role developing old school TWs like med 2 have already quit CA following the WH3 price hike debacle last year. CA's attempt to get more money from fantasy fans to salvage their underperforming historical team backfired, so they end up laying off their auxillery dev team and historical team altogether. At this point historical TW is already dead, and CA basically filled a divorced with their historical fanbase after 20 years of rocky relationship.

They aren't making more historical total wars because Warhammer's profits puts the historical titles to shame and no one one rich enough is willing to fund another one for now.

Like I wouldn't be surprised if they made TW Pharoh because of rich Egyptians more than customer surveys.

[Royale]

Originally posted by Darth Alpharius:

Fantasy was a new out of the Linear box of ideas that Total War Originally used over and over again since Shogun Total War, but when people expect Original Historical they get Games that have Fantasy Total War blood in it.

Ish. 3k Innovated a lot with diplomacy and it's my favorite not warhammer total war just because of it. Better than Shogun 2. That said art is subjective and Shogun 2 is one of the best TWs.

[Sqrt(-1)]

I wouldn't write off historical games. Three Kingdoms sold extremely well, it's just that their DLC strategy was insanely bad. Troy and Pharaoh were both settings few people were interested in. Bronze Age warfare without artillery and with very little cavalry just isn't very captivating.
But look at the success of historical games such as Manor Lords, Crusader Kings 3 or Kingdom Come, amongst others, and you can see that there are plenty of people who will play historical games without fantasy elements. If CA bothered to do a game like Medieval 3, Empire 2, Pike and Shot or Victoria TW, I'm pretty sure you would see that people are still interested in historical TW games.

[coffeemm8]

Most historical fans seem content to just play Medieval 2 forever. They shun most newer historical TWs. Unjustly IMO