Cao Cao is now OP

[Buldor]

Seriously, his new schemes are amazing. -20 food for faction? Available turn 1?

On turn 10, I used -50 diplomatic rep and -20 food on Liu Bei. On turn 11 he got declared war on by Yuan Shao, and everything was losing reserves. I traded 30 food (everything I had) + 500 gold and 20 credibility to get both Lanya lumbermill and Dong's mine off him, destroying his income. I then cancelled the food trade, losing 10 rep for 10 turns (oh no...).

With 2 schemes and a little trade, I destroyed Liu Bei in 2 turns without a single battle. Tao Qian was also a joke, as the first battle against him, I gave him -20 morale and had Zang Ba be a traitor reinforcement (I put all my level points into spies for more schemes, for reasons like those above). This meant he lost 1/3 of his army being converted to my own, whilst all his militia had only 10 morale left (I was on Legendary, otherwise they'd of started on "touch me and I rout mode).

This is so much fun and opens up such a unique and rewarding playstyle. Please don't nerf. Just buff Wu and Shu in the future and they'll have the tools to be consistent kingdoms without player intervention.

[plebs]

this scheme mechanic should be available for all faction with strategist or sth so it'll be more three kingdoms - es.

[Buldor]

Originally posted by グービーすみませんは:

this scheme mechanic should be available for all faction with strategist or sth so it'll be more three kingdoms - es.

The spy mechanics should be improved, but schemes like this is only characteristic of Cao Cao, with a minor degree to Zhuge Liang. This type of scheming wasn't so widespread, it makes no sense to remove a feature that is so closely linked to 1 faction, to make it universal for factions that never done anything of the sort.

[mekamoari]

The point is that not only are schemes super powerful (check -100% charge bonus for the entire enemy army lmao), but they are either quite cheap, or create credibility which you also get to use for diplomacy bonuses. At this point it's probably the strongest faction mechanic (except maybe Lu Bu's ability to conquer multiple cities per turn).

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

He was OP as heck beforehand anyway - I'm of the view that if you're playing Cao Cao, Sun Jian, or Liu Bei then you are functionally playing on easy mode. Decent starting positions, incredible heroes (and more importantly, items). I'm kinda fine with that though. It's like playing a football game and complaining that Real Madrid is OP, or that Jon Cena is OP in a wrestling game.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Like.. Yeah, Cao Cao is OP. That's why he won lol.

[Dirge]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Like.. Yeah, Cao Cao is OP. That's why he won lol.

Until Sima Yi decided it was his turn. Didn't Cao Wei fall apart and become the Sima led Jin?

[Jerroser]

Originally posted by 76561198802394593:

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Like.. Yeah, Cao Cao is OP. That's why he won lol.

Until Sima Yi decided it was his turn. Didn't Cao Wei fall apart and become the Sima led Jin?

Cao Cao was definitely a brilliant leader given how he was able to form the Kingdom of Wei, but his successors were clearly no where near his caliber. Sima Yi would probably never have led his coup if Cao Cao was still around.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Originally posted by Saint Scorpio:

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Like.. Yeah, Cao Cao is OP. That's why he won lol.

Until Sima Yi decided it was his turn. Didn't Cao Wei fall apart and become the Sima led Jin?

Kiiiiinda, though Cao Cao was long dead by that point. Sima's taking of power as regent took place much later - even after Cao Pi's death.

[Buldor]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

He was OP as heck beforehand anyway - I'm of the view that if you're playing Cao Cao, Sun Jian, or Liu Bei then you are functionally playing on easy mode. Decent starting positions, incredible heroes (and more importantly, items). I'm kinda fine with that though. It's like playing a football game and complaining that Real Madrid is OP, or that Jon Cena is OP in a wrestling game.

Before, at 900 start he just had 2 uniques and a non-mechanic. Whilst Yuan Shao would have 4-5 full armies by turn 10. In terms of starting, Shi Xie, White Lion, Ma Teng, Sun Jian , Yuan Shao, Gongsun Zan have better starts, and all the others but Dong Zhuo have equal.

2 heroes with no weapons didn't make him at all OP.

[Ashley]

Being at war with Cao Cao is just utterly awful. Played as Dong Zhou on the default time period where you start at war with most people. Turn one i instantly got slapped with immense debuffs causing food loss everywhere which triggered rebellions across everything.

[Fried Noodles]

Originally posted by ♥Ashley♥:

Being at war with Cao Cao is just utterly awful. Played as Dong Zhou on the default time period where you start at war with most people. Turn one i instantly got slapped with immense debuffs causing food loss everywhere which triggered rebellions across everything.

That's good though.
You want rebellions everywhere.
Dong Zhuo gets free +10 Intimidation per battle. Each rebellion is one or two battles. 10-20 Intimidation.

Spend that Intimidation siphoning free money out of the passive nerds (Liu Biao, Kong Rong, Han Empire) and fight more rebellions for more Intimidation.

Don't forget to thank Cao Cao later!

[Haddon]

CA don't know what balance is. Never, never get a CA product on release, and assume it will be balanced. WE are CA's quality assurance team.

[Okita Asada]

"Just buff the other factions when you release a new dlc in 1 year to cover both and be stuck with extremely unbalanced mechanics until then, if it ever happens to begin with"

[Okita Asada]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Like.. Yeah, Cao Cao is OP. That's why he won lol.

So he got his family usurped, his state taken and part of his family exterminated, but he won?