whats the Difference between military alliance and Forming and empire via diplomacy

[Arakus]

I have the option to form an military alliance with my coalition members or turn the coalition into empire. When I issue the order to turn into a empire I take a major negative hit towards attitude around -100. but when I form an military alliance I get positive gains towards attitude. So what is the benefits of each? I dont feel like taking -100 to all my allies to form an empire unless it allows me to win quicker? I am currently a kingdom and I have wiped out one of the other kingdoms. I am unable to ask the other kingdoms to abdicate the throne to me. My last campaign was I able to use this option to get the win. What do I need to do to make the abdicate option available?

[Jerroser]

An Empire meant to be sort of like a cross between an alliance and vassal system, where who ever initiates the request to create an Empire (can only be done by an Emperor) will make the other factions involved in to their subjects. A large portion of all their income is deducted and divided equally between all of them and there is a special set of diplomatic options available to its members relating to internal conflicts.

Personally I don't think the system works very well now as its clearly designed more specifically for use by the Han Emperor in the Early MoH campaign to replicate each lord being able to act as independent factions while still being Imperial subjects. So it never really seems like the best option in the late game when you could make the smaller factions who aren't rivals for the throne in to vassals instead.

Right now the abdicate option seems to have been removed from the game, probably due to a mistake on CA's part. Deciding to remove it as an option for Liu Hong but accidently making it apply to anyone else who makes it up to Emperor. None of the patch notes made any mention of it being removed, but at the moment its clearly not in the game.

[Vin362]

I don’t really like the form empire option since it is easier to get vassals that and you cannot annex territories from your subjects because that is a unique political influence ability for Liu Hong, military alliances are probably a better option plus the income sharing from empire an empire doesn’t really work well if you don’t have a lot of subjects.

My guess the abdication option was accidently removed when CA hotfixed the game to no longer allow you to invite the other emperors into your empire, unless they intended to remove it.

[Cpt. Kid]

I was asking the samething and thought coalition and empire were kind of the same its not. I think its the bonuses. You will get more money from other member states in a empire than with them as a vassal. Thats not including just through trade it was something else I was glancing at it in my Prince of Chen game.

I forgot what the diplomacy was for an empire. I never do a military alliance but I think military alliance is kind of like coalition but theres no voting who can be part of an alliance and who cant and you can drag allies into war if you are at war with them? I cant remember I never do military alliance cus of the wars I get dragged in. If you are allies are at war with someone I think it automatically drags you into their wars too.

In a empire with you as emperor I think you run the show with diplomacy for everyone in it pretty much. The other member states can still declare war on other factions but I forgot what it the difference was. This has no impact on you if they attack another faction like they cant drag you into that but request help but if you attack someone I thought it dragged everyone into it that joined your empire I cant remember.

Family feuds are a new feature in the game when you form an empire which I think is cool. You have to babysit the other factions when they attack each other while in your empire (marriage through family tree with other factions have an impact on this pretty sure thats why I avoid marriage with other factions). This is wrong Total War game but its like being the Emperor of Japan in Kyoto and Tosa attacked Satsuma when both sided with the Emperor as Imperial Army. As Emperor of Japan you are going to have to break it up between the two factions.

[Cpt. Kid]

Im pretty sure the game is still broke in some areas and still being worked on. The Yellow Turban Rebellion and Rebels arent working right in the game yet. After you wipe out the Yellow Turban factions and Yellow Turban Rebellion as a faction the Yellow Turban Rebellion should be able to come back as a faction when they take over a settlement but right now I think its broke in the game.

If you form an empire and want a vassal. Use 1 vassal to make it to the end of your game to attack whoevers left and then annex your vassal at the end. Whoevers left at the end its most likely going to be whoevers in your empire.

[Cpt. Kid]

Not sure who was asking but they arent done with 3K yet. I think they are going to try and combine 8 Princes time period into the story campaign which is what I want to see cus I think it might turn into rebels or not sure how CA is going to do this. I think theres a couple faction DLCs still coming out too. Fervor might even disappear when you play that far into the game like I said not sure how they are going to set this up.

I didnt see Sima Yong or Sima Jiong in my Prince of Chen game from the beginning and I played past 190. I dont think I came across any of the 8 Princes that could have been recruited.

[RCMidas]

I doubt any of the Eight Princes will show up in a campaign started before their time period. You'd have to set event flags for the original Simas being recruited to a faction, then for their descendants over the next five generations to be born correctly regardless of whether the Jin Empire is even formed...and that'll stop the instant somebody captures Sima Yi and executes him.

[Arakus]

thanks for your help everyone. Also when I make the empire I lose money!. I was making 10k a turn down to 6k when I form an empire and stay the same when forming a military alliance. forming an empire just doesnt seem worth it? definitely not in my play through. So strange I lose money for an empire.

[Vin362]

Originally posted by Arakus:

thanks for your help everyone. Also when I make the empire I lose money!. I was making 10k a turn down to 6k when I form an empire and stay the same when forming a military alliance. forming an empire just doesnt seem worth it? definitely not in my play through. So strange I lose money for an empire.

The loss of income comes from the emperor’s ability collect 80% of the income from your subjects but the drawback is you payback 90% of your own to divide evenly among your subjects, this again is something that works better with Liu Hong in the Mandate of Heaven (MOH) compared to other factions because you start as an established empire with enough subjects that once you kick 2-3 eunuchs and got salary reduction reforms you will start to see increases in your income. By the time you can make an empire as your faction there is most likely only be the the other two seats of power and maybe a few vassals.

I found nothing wrong with the old court set up so I have no idea why they changed it I don't mind it for Liu Hong but not sure it fits other factions with their playstyle