Commanders and champions

[Etxxu]

Hi!!

I have always played with armies of strategist, vanguard and sentinel (4 archers, 2 treb, 4 Jian swords, 4 militia halberd cav, 2 pearl and 2 axe).

So my question are:

1. Are commanders worthy? Which good units can they field?

2. Are Champions worthy? Which good units can they field other than spearmen and heavy spearmen?

3. Which one has better units: champion or sentinel?

Thank you so much!!

[Onimaho]

Any character can field multiple colors of units. It doesn't really matter that much unless you are trying to min max or looking for a specific unit from a particular color to add to your army. Example being only blue can recruit siege equipment like giant crossbows n such.

There are some bonuses here and there to matching hero and retinue color. Most of that is transparently listed under details of the hero.

Commanders are aura buffers, mostly morale based but also include some stuff like temporary invulnerability or whatever.

Yellow is for melee cavalry; basically anti archer cavalry.


Champions are literal tanks. Combine with a little bit of red and now you got a monster of a duelist. (likewise red make excellent duelists as well when combined with some green)

Green is for polearms, which is a mix of "all-rounder" and anti cavalry; halberds, spears, guandao, etc...



It isn't about "better" units, it's about how you play the game and what sort of composition do you need/like.

Purple - best anti infantry infantry
Blue - best ranged units
Green - best all round or anti cav units
Yellow - best anti infantry cav
Red - best anti cavalry and shock cavalry (which basically means cycle charge them)

[path2power]

Originally posted by Etxxu:

Hi!!

I have always played with armies of strategist, vanguard and sentinel (4 archers, 2 treb, 4 Jian swords, 4 militia halberd cav, 2 pearl and 2 axe).

So my question are:

1. Are commanders worthy? Which good units can they field?

2. Are Champions worthy? Which good units can they field other than spearmen and heavy spearmen?

3. Which one has better units: champion or sentinel?

Thank you so much!!

How is that your main army when it gets eaten alive by cavalry, even Generals? I hope you don't bring that army to the Nanman lands, you will never stop the elephants once they get to your lines.

To answer your question, Commanders are flexible, they can field Crossbowmen, Spear Guards and Sabre Infantry (when you unlock them). Their Unique units, the Sabre Cavalry, are the 2nd best at absorbing arrow damage (behind Spear Guards with Turtle formation) but are much faster, and with high morale, you can have them tie up units in melee temporarily unlike Shock cavalry. They're also the best Generals on Defence, since they can get a skill that makes them unbreakable and they have abilities that give their troops temporary unbreakability as well as some other buffs.

You don't really need Champions if you're so dead set on Sentinels. Commanders have Spear Guards, the Champions best unit. They're good at dueling, and I guess killing opponents faster, but Sentinels are also good at dueling with high melee evasion, its just that they only have tenacity of Steel for damage, so some fights will be dragged out.
Champions are for shutting down cavalry, which somehow aren't a problem for you. Ji Infantry aren't great, they can't block arrows, they don't do as much damage to cavalry, and even though they last longer against purple units over spear versions, they will eventually lose to their sword equivalents 1 on 1. Spear warriors are nice, because they are an offensive version of then spear guard, but unfortunately while we get armored Ji units, we don't get armored non-shield-Spearmen. All of these units are also bad, because the tech tree to unlock them gives you bad upgrades like extra supplies and Granary unlocks, which are useless because supplies and city reserves are non-issues. Their Dragon unit is better on non-CHampion Han Generals because of fire arrows, Bandit Champions at least give poison arrows but you can't control if you get a bandit champion.

Where Champions are good is historical mode, since the green stat determines bodyguard size, Champions Get a large retinue of Heavy Lance Cavalry, which can easily be larger than the standard Cataphract size.

So give Commanders a chance, but as long as you keep running into these no-cavalry armies, you can skip Champions.

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by Onimaho:

Any character can field multiple colors of units. It doesn't really matter that much unless you are trying to min max or looking for a specific unit from a particular color to add to your army. Example being only blue can recruit siege equipment like giant crossbows n such.

There are some bonuses here and there to matching hero and retinue color. Most of that is transparently listed under details of the hero.

Commanders are aura buffers, mostly morale based but also include some stuff like temporary invulnerability or whatever.

Yellow is for melee cavalry; basically anti archer cavalry.


Champions are literal tanks. Combine with a little bit of red and now you got a monster of a duelist. (likewise red make excellent duelists as well when combined with some green)

Green is for polearms, which is a mix of "all-rounder" and anti cavalry; halberds, spears, guandao, etc...



It isn't about "better" units, it's about how you play the game and what sort of composition do you need/like.

Purple - best anti infantry infantry
Blue - best ranged units
Green - best all round or anti cav units
Yellow - best anti infantry cav
Red - best anti cavalry and shock cavalry (which basically means cycle charge them)

Yes, I know that, It is stated in the description, but I have never played champion or commander at high levels, so I don't know which units can field end game (beside champion's heavy spearmen) and I would like if just like, for example, commander can field green spearmen if they can field heavy spearmen, red medium shock cavalry, etcétera, or what are their end game units... Same with champions.

Also, I would like to know if are better the units of champion or sentinel to frontline end game since I have a lot of trouble surviving when every nation start declaring war on me at the end game because of the number of casualties I ussually have fighting constantly without time to recover (so imperial units are not an option) and my jian swords lvl 10 at the end game start to feel weak

Originally posted by path2power:

Originally posted by Etxxu:

Hi!!

I have always played with armies of strategist, vanguard and sentinel (4 archers, 2 treb, 4 Jian swords, 4 militia halberd cav, 2 pearl and 2 axe).

So my question are:

1. Are commanders worthy? Which good units can they field?

2. Are Champions worthy? Which good units can they field other than spearmen and heavy spearmen?

3. Which one has better units: champion or sentinel?

Thank you so much!!

How is that your main army when it gets eaten alive by cavalry, even Generals? I hope you don't bring that army to the Nanman lands, you will never stop the elephants once they get to your lines.

To answer your question, Commanders are flexible, they can field Crossbowmen, Spear Guards and Sabre Infantry (when you unlock them). Their Unique units, the Sabre Cavalry, are the 2nd best at absorbing arrow damage (behind Spear Guards with Turtle formation) but are much faster, and with high morale, you can have them tie up units in melee temporarily unlike Shock cavalry. They're also the best Generals on Defence, since they can get a skill that makes them unbreakable and they have abilities that give their troops temporary unbreakability as well as some other buffs.

You don't really need Champions if you're so dead set on Sentinels. Commanders have Spear Guards, the Champions best unit. They're good at dueling, and I guess killing opponents faster, but Sentinels are also good at dueling with high melee evasion, its just that they only have tenacity of Steel for damage, so some fights will be dragged out.
Champions are for shutting down cavalry, which somehow aren't a problem for you. Ji Infantry aren't great, they can't block arrows, they don't do as much damage to cavalry, and even though they last longer against purple units over spear versions, they will eventually lose to their sword equivalents 1 on 1. Spear warriors are nice, because they are an offensive version of then spear guard, but unfortunately while we get armored Ji units, we don't get armored non-shield-Spearmen. All of these units are also bad, because the tech tree to unlock them gives you bad upgrades like extra supplies and Granary unlocks, which are useless because supplies and city reserves are non-issues. Their Dragon unit is better on non-CHampion Han Generals because of fire arrows, Bandit Champions at least give poison arrows but you can't control if you get a bandit champion.

Where Champions are good is historical mode, since the green stat determines bodyguard size, Champions Get a large retinue of Heavy Lance Cavalry, which can easily be larger than the standard Cataphract size.

So give Commanders a chance, but as long as you keep running into these no-cavalry armies, you can skip Champions.

I don't understand your first question. But Nambam was NOT a problem... Elephants never reached my frontline

Spearmen is the best green unit? More than heavy spearmen? Can normal green spearmen survive end game armies? Because of that is true I maybe change my sentinels for commanders (buffs) with 6 spearmen to use the tactic of hammer and anvil



Also, tree units as Pearl (the purple ones I don't remember the name) can be field by commanders? Because If some tree units can be fielded by commanders I will change my non-unique sentinel general for commanders

And finally, at the end game with soooo many battles everywhere without time to replenish... Is It better the spear guards or jian sword? Or which unit do you recommend me to be my main line and anvil?

Thank you so much to both of you!!

[path2power]

Heavy Spearmen are better than regular ones.

I think you are talking about Pearl Dragons? Dragon units can be used by any General, so yes you can field Pearl Dragons with Commanders. They are best on Sentinels they are the Infantry general.

If you are unlocking Pearl Dragons, you should have access to Sabre Infantry, who are pretty much superior to Jian Sword Guards, so you should use them instead. You should also have access to Imperial infantry, the best melee infantry outside 8 princes, so you should consider them as well. I personally don't find Pearl Dragons useful, as Zhanmanjian fill the same role and don't require all those reforms to unlock.

Heavy Spear Guards are better at stopping cavalry and blocking arrows when attacking a city, since Turtle Formation blocks arrows from all directions, while melee infantry only block from the front with shield wall. They won't do as much damage, but they survive longer.

My Formations usually look like this:
Key: SP-Spear Guard SB-Sabre Infantry/Axe Infantry A-Archer/Onyx Dragon CB-Crossbowmen CAV-Cavalry T-Trebuchet E-Enemy Line

EEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EE EE


CAVCAVCAV CAVCAVCAV

CBCBCBCB
SPSPSPSPSPSP
SBSB A A SBSB

T T

I first use cavalry/generals to harass the enemy, and try and get lucky by killing their archers. The Crossbowmen outrange the enemy since they put theirs behind their infantry, so you get free shots on the enemy front line. Once the enemy cavalry/ infantry get too close, shift the crossbowmen behind the archers. Once the enemy connects with my spearline, the sabre Infanrty loop around and flank the wings, then any cavalry I can spare atttack from behind, like so:

SB CAV CAV SB
SB EEEEEEEEEEEEE SB
SPSPSPSPSPSP
A A
CBCBCBCB
T T

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by path2power:

Heavy Spearmen are better than regular ones.

I think you are talking about Pearl Dragons? Dragon units can be used by any General, so yes you can field Pearl Dragons with Commanders. They are best on Sentinels they are the Infantry general.

If you are unlocking Pearl Dragons, you should have access to Sabre Infantry, who are pretty much superior to Jian Sword Guards, so you should use them instead. You should also have access to Imperial infantry, the best melee infantry outside 8 princes, so you should consider them as well. I personally don't find Pearl Dragons useful, as Zhanmanjian fill the same role and don't require all those reforms to unlock.

Heavy Spear Guards are better at stopping cavalry and blocking arrows when attacking a city, since Turtle Formation blocks arrows from all directions, while melee infantry only block from the front with shield wall. They won't do as much damage, but they survive longer.

My Formations usually look like this:
Key: SP-Spear Guard SB-Sabre Infantry/Axe Infantry A-Archer/Onyx Dragon CB-Crossbowmen CAV-Cavalry T-Trebuchet E-Enemy Line

EEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EE EE


CAVCAVCAV CAVCAVCAV

CBCBCBCB
SPSPSPSPSPSP
SBSB A A SBSB

T T

I first use cavalry/generals to harass the enemy, and try and get lucky by killing their archers. The Crossbowmen outrange the enemy since they put theirs behind their infantry, so you get free shots on the enemy front line. Once the enemy cavalry/ infantry get too close, shift the crossbowmen behind the archers. Once the enemy connects with my spearline, the sabre Infanrty loop around and flank the wings, then any cavalry I can spare atttack from behind, like so:

SB CAV CAV SB
SB EEEEEEEEEEEEE SB
SPSPSPSPSPSP
A A
CBCBCBCB
T T

I didn't know that sabré infantry was better than Jian sword, I have always read the opposite

I don't want imperial units, takes agea to recover and I use to fight in a "total war" against every faction

I use pearl as they are pretty good offensive and defensive, also, I unlock them mostly because the % of industry and commerce that tree give
Until that, in early game, I use axe band

Early game (kind of expensive) I use:
- 4 militia halberd cav (2 each flank) supported. I start with the cav and my vanguard harassing to disrupt enemy formation until my trebuchets can reach them
- 2 militia archers with fire shooting, 2 trebuchets with Flamingo shoot
- 2 Jian swords shield wall and 2 axe band
- Only legendary sentinels to lose of moral after their general lose the duels (Zhal Yun, Yue Jin, etcétera)

With this I handle Liu ¿Yao?, Gongsun Du and Yuan Shao

Mid game:
- 4 militia halberd cav (2 each flank) supported. I start with the cav and my vanguard harassing to disrupt enemy formation until my trebuchets can reach them.
- 2 axe band (1 each flank) supporting my shock cav in case the enemy has a lot of spearmen when my cav flankor to attack from the rear with my cav
- 4 militia archers with fire shooting, 2 trebuchets with Flamingo shoot
- 4 Jian swords shield wall and 2 axe band
- 2 Pearl Dragons to prevent being flanking as my cav is very mobile and task to disrupt enemy formation and, after that, to flank also.
- Or 2 Gongsun Zan horse archers to harass and disrupt enemy formation

I stick It even end game, as disrupting his formation since the beginning of the battle (and forming my troops allllllll the way back I can) force the enemy to run and they are always tired when they meet my troops and with bad moral because of the fire arrows and trebs and the lose of duels