How To Select the best Court Ministers?

[Didz]

I have just made it to Emperor status and so my whole court has been reshuffled and I've got a whole load of new ministerial positions to fill.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2885718967
So, as stated the question is how do I choose the right person for each position?

I've tried researching how this works and I've even watch Serious Trivia's video on it, but apart from making me feel like throwing myself out of the window I am none the wiser. So, I've logged out of the game and I'm looking for some clear simple advice.

What do I look for when choosing a person for a ministerial role?
Does it even matter who I put in which role?
and Do I need to free the position up before I can see the effects of the position?

For Example:

• Xiahou Yaun is currently my default Grand Tutor.
  
• If i hover my mouse of his character it tells me that the Effect of having him in this post is...and it list five effects like +1 Armies. But all of these effects are conditionasl on him being Prime Minister, which he isn't. So, does that mean he actually gets nothing for being Grand Tutor?
  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2885722503
  
• Incidentally there is no longer any Prime Minister role so all these Prime Minister effects useless now?
  
• Likewise, assuming that there might be other characters with more useful effects, How do I check because I don;t seem able to look at anyone else in that role without saciing Xiahou Yaun first and then he goes into cooldown and I can't put him back again if he actually is the best character?

Has anyone actually mastered this and if so how did you approach it and what did you look for?

[Fried Noodles]

The only positions that matter on this screen are the seven ones at the top (including faction leader) and your administrator positions.

The nine ministors in the middle always do the same thing no matter who is occupying those slots, so you can just dump your high leve generals there randomly to sort out their satisfaction.

Depending on their traits and how you developed their skill trees, certain characters perform better than others as administrators.
Characters with high Expertise reduce construction costs in their administered commandery. And characters with high Resolve give their commandery bonus population growth.

As for the seven leadership positions at the top, I always try to focus on characters that have the highest impact 'Faction-Wide' bonuses. These ones are usually only active if the character is Leader, Heir, or Prime Ministor.

But the Imperial Court transforms the Prime Ministor slot into effectively FIVE Prime Ministor slots, allowing you plenty of faction-wide bonuses.

As for who should take each specific slot.... that doesn't matter. SeriousTrivia puts extra thought into it based on the characters personalities historically. But that's just for flavor.

The Grand Tutor is supposed to be someone who directly influences the education of your faction's heir, but in-game it is just a leadership position that is (nearly) functionally identical to the other four ministor slots.

Looking at your roster, from memory the only characters that stand out as decent ministors are Cao Pi (but he should be heir, really!), and Luo Jun.
I don't recall any of the other unique characters I can see on this screen having amazing bonuses.

But apparently you have over 150 generals in your court. You probably have some good ones tucked away.

[Sqrt(-1)]

All of the top 7 positions count as prime minister, heir or faction leader, including grand tutor.
There are three things to look out for (in descending order)
- Good backgrounds
- Being a Commmander (high authority and good skill tree for leaders)
- Good traits like honest (-5% corruption)
When I'm in your spot I take stock of all my unique characters, since they usually have the best backgrounds. Some are great (like Cao Pi or Zhuge Liang), some decent and many bad (no or irrelevant factionwide effect). If my top positions aren't filled yet I look at good generic characters.

The other 9 ministries don't matter. Give them to high level or unhappy characters to buy their loyalty.

Hope that helps!

[Didz]

Originally posted by Fried Noodles:

The only positions that matter on this screen are the seven ones at the top (including faction leader) and your administrator positions.

Good! So i can put anyone I want in the nine Ministerial Positions and it won't really matter except that it will boost their personal satisfaction to be chosen.

Depending on their traits and how you developed their skill trees, certain characters perform better than others as administrators. Characters with high Expertise reduce construction costs in their administered commandery. And characters with high Resolve give their commandery bonus population growth.

I'm reasonably confident about the selection and appointment of Administrators and whilst i shoul probably review them more often they are chosen to match the needs of the Commandery. So, they should be good.

As for the seven leadership positions at the top, I always try to focus on characters that have the highest impact 'Faction-Wide' bonuses. These ones are usually only active if the character is Leader, Heir, or Prime Ministor. But the Imperial Court transforms the Prime Ministor slot into effectively FIVE Prime Ministor slots, allowing you plenty of faction-wide bonuses.

Ah! So that's important then. If all those posts count as Prime Ministers than a lot of those faction-wide bonuses will actually work and so the more each candidate has the better.

So, i just need to find the seven characters who have the most bonuses for each of the seven positions.

Is there any clever way of doing that or is it best just to dismiss all the default appointments, wait a turn for them to cool down and then go through them one by one?

I don't think you can compare candidates whilst the post is actually occupied.

Looking at your roster, from memory the only characters that stand out as decent ministers are Cao Pi (but he should be heir, really!), and Luo Jun.

Really?
I just went with the oldest son.

But apparently you have over 150 generals in your court. You probably have some good ones tucked away.

Yeah! I've been a bit pedantic about everyone being married. So, not only has that resulted in a lot of extra wives hanging around the Court, but its also generated a hell of a lot of children. Many of whom are now coming of age.

i am actually doing a lot of personal develop stuff to try and give these wives and children decent profiles. So, for example, they usually get the job of suppressing rebellions to give them some experience.

[Didz]

Originally posted by Sqrt(-1):

All of the top 7 positions count as prime minister, heir or faction leader, including grand tutor.
There are three things to look out for (in descending order)
- Good backgrounds
- Being a Commmander (high authority and good skill tree for leaders)
- Good traits like honest (-5% corruption)
When I'm in your spot I take stock of all my unique characters, since they usually have the best backgrounds. Some are great (like Cao Pi or Zhuge Liang), some decent and many bad (no or irrelevant factionwide effect). If my top positions aren't filled yet I look at good generic characters.

The other 9 ministries don't matter. Give them to high level or unhappy characters to buy their loyalty.

Hope that helps!

Thanks!

I wasn't sure if the seven leaders at the top all counted as Prime minister but that makes a big difference. It's going to take me ages to find the best candidates though, but at least now I know its a worthwhile effort. i thought at first that as most of the Effects were Prime Minister only it was just a waste of time.

[Sqrt(-1)]

Originally posted by Didz:

Originally posted by Sqrt(-1):

All of the top 7 positions count as prime minister, heir or faction leader, including grand tutor.
There are three things to look out for (in descending order)
- Good backgrounds
- Being a Commmander (high authority and good skill tree for leaders)
- Good traits like honest (-5% corruption)
When I'm in your spot I take stock of all my unique characters, since they usually have the best backgrounds. Some are great (like Cao Pi or Zhuge Liang), some decent and many bad (no or irrelevant factionwide effect). If my top positions aren't filled yet I look at good generic characters.

The other 9 ministries don't matter. Give them to high level or unhappy characters to buy their loyalty.

Hope that helps!

Thanks!

I wasn't sure if the seven leaders at the top all counted as Prime minister but that makes a big difference. It's going to take me ages to find the best candidates though, but at least now I know its a worthwhile effort. i thought at first that as most of the Effects were Prime Minister only it was just a waste of time.

I can understand that, the game does a terrible job explaining it. At release you did unlock a prime minister when you became emperor, but the extended imperial court was added in a later patch and the wording was never updated.

[Fried Noodles]

Originally posted by Didz:

Is there any clever way of doing that or is it best just to dismiss all the default appointments, wait a turn for them to cool down and then go through them one by one?

I don't think you can compare candidates whilst the post is actually occupied.

You can just go through them each individually, looking on their character sheets. Usually the only really unique thing would be whatever bonus a character receives from his Background. You can mouse over 'Strategic Mastermind' for Cao Cao or 'Political Animal' for Cao Pi and see what unique effects they bring.

Really?
I just went with the oldest son.

Yeah doesn't actually matter. In-game, I don't think Cao Ang has anything special going on for him as he is not a unique character. He may have been Cao Cao's heir had he not died young and opened up the 'heir apparent' position to Cao Pi and his other brothers.

Since Cao Pi was the one who ultimately took over after Cao Cao died, he got thr unique character treatment in this game.

[panderusw]

The are sh*t load of item which only have it effect when equipment on PM position, (which is a really bad design on the dev part, but that is another topic). So, you might to also shuffle some item to equip on those top spots.

[Didz]

Originally posted by panderusw:

The are sh*t load of item which only have it effect when equipment on PM position, (which is a really bad design on the dev part, but that is another topic). So, you might to also shuffle some item to equip on those top spots.

That's actually a very good piont.

I have loads of ancillary items and advisors sitting in my inventory unused because their only worthwhile effects don't work unless assigned to a Prime Minister. So, I guess this is the perfect opportunity to actually use some of them.

[Didz]

Ok! Today I plan to spend hours sorting out my new Imperial Court and ministers.

What I'm thinking is:

• Sack everyone and start with a clean slate.
  
• Run the game on for one turn so that everyone is off Cool down and Available. That will obviously have some consequences for things like income and order.
  
• Choose the best Heir for my faction first, as I'm told the one i have isn't the best available.
  
• Then work through the seven Prime Ministerial appointments choosing the best candidates for each position based on their personal effects.
  
• Then do the Administrators appointing the best characters for each of my most productive Commanderys.
  
• Finally filling in the nine minor ministerial appointments, which I'm told don't have any personal effect issues. So, it doesn't really matter who I place in them.

Does that sound like a decent plan?
Can anyone see any obvious issues?
++++
Faction Heir: Cao Pi seems to be the best option for Heir mainly because he has -25 Deployment Cost (Faction-wide) and -10 Corruption (Faction wide). Some of Cao Cao's other children have impressive effects but none of the others have those.

[panderusw]

You do not have to fill up all the spots right away, Heir position, yes, maybe some PM spots. However, the lower 9 spots do not have to fill right away,

Reason:
1. You might get more powerful, high level generals later. General like Lu Bu, Yan BaiHu, Zheng Jiang etc. Those need a spot in the court to keep them happy.

2. You might already know, sentinel give heavy discount on city building, while strategist give boost to economy and food production. I usually do this, put a sentinel as admin in a city that I want to develop, once it done, I move the sentinel to one of the lower 9 spots so his loyalty does not take a nose dive, then put a strategist as admin in said city. Rinse and repeat when you get a new city to develop. A good lower 9 spots is the Minister of Herold as you already declare emperor, everyone hate your gut, faction relative does not mean much at this point. My go to sentinel for this job is Yu Jin.

Cao Pi is a very good choice for Heir. I would recommend move Cao Ang to "Minister of Imperial household" as this is basically the king guard. As Cao Ang die with his dad bodyguard during a coup, it seem fitting. Another good candidate is Dian Wei, as he also die during the same coup while holding the gate open long enough for Cao Cao to eascape.

[Didz]

I didn't realise that Sentinels and Strategists had specific skills as administrators, although I always select the character who provides the best personal effects for the given commandery. e.g. If its an Industry Commandery then i choose an Adminstrator with a high boost to inductrial production, whereas a Farming Commandery gets an adminstrator that boost food production as much as possible.

I got interrupted yesterday and so didn't manage to finish setting up my Imperial Court. Partly because I was invited to a concert at the last minute and partly because when I started work on the game the King of Wu unexpectedly abdicated. So, I ended up with a lot more sorting out to do than I expected with all his Commandery's and Generals to sort through. A lot more candidates for Ministerial positions too now.

The only real issue I've had so far is that the -20 Satisfaction penalty for sacking someone from office caused three of my courtiers to get upset and threaten to leave. So, i had to hand out some titles to keep them happy. But other than that I'm just working through the turn process before ending the turn and clearing all the Cooldown Timers so everyone is available for Ministerial Positions next turn.

Trying hard not to do anything that added more characters to the cooldown timer in the meantime.

[Didz]

Grand Tutor Selection

Going through all 180 x candidates the first cut is simply based on how many personal effects they bring to the role.

This produced a short list of seven candidates listed below in descending order number of effects and name.

1. Liu Huimin - 10 x Effects
   
2. Yan Wen - 8 x Effects
   
3. Ze Yue - 8 x Effects
   
4. Gongsun Zan - 7 x Effects
   
5. Han Lian - 7 x Effects
   
6. Sun Quin - 7 x Effects
   
7. Yu Jin - 7 x Effects

However, obviously the nature and degree of effect may vary so its not just how many they have but how good/useful they are that really matter, and that's where it gets complicated.

Unfortunately, there is no comparison tool built into the game so I've taken screenshots of what each candidate offers and I'm going to try and create a comparison tool using Paint by cutting and pasting the images together and then marking the best effects to see who has the most high and useful ones..

This is my attempt to compare the Top Seven Candidates for Grand Tutor.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2886468328

Lui Huimin: has the most effects but nothing particularly notable.

Ze Yue: is the only candidate to reduce Construction Times and one of the highest Public Order bonuses.

Yan Wen: increases the number of armies by +1 and reduces mustering turns by 1. He is also the only candidate to provide a Universal Income increase !0% for everything and a further 10% for Industry.

Gongsun Zan: Is really all about cavalry and not a lot else. Though he is the only candidate that interferes with enemy spies and +6 Satisfaction isn't bad.

Sun Quan: Highest Satisfaction increase (+8) and increases in Campaign Movement and supplies. But otherwise nothing special.

Han Lian: Pretty lack-lustre Lui Huimin has everything she has and more.

Yu Jin: One of the highest Public Order Bonuses (+4) but apart from that nothing special Ze Yue has the same Public Order Bonus plus -2 Construction Turns and is only missing the Trade Influence Bonus.

Decision - Yan Wen

I vacillated about this decision for a while, but in the end opted for Yan Wen mainly because of the +1 Armies, -1 Mustering Time and -25% Redeployment Cost. The income bonuses whilst nice turned out to be largely the result of his ancillaries and so could have been transferred to another character, He was also the youngest of the Top Three candidates and had a good relationship profile.

I've also given him The Merchant Ancillary with Monopoly which should add +25% Trade Influence and the book Discourses of the States which reduces factionwide corruption bv 5% (Unfortunately I'm missing the Law Enforcer so it provides no Public Order Bonus).

So, onward and upward I now need to repeat this process for each of the Prime Minsters. Though I'm hoping it will get easier now I've got the process sorted out, and I suspect the same candidates are going to keep coming up for each position. So, minimal rework I hope.

[Didz]

Filing the Remaining Posts

As I suspected when checking the other posts the same candidates were coming up for each of them which makes things much simpler as I have seven candidates and only four remaining posts so I just need to chose the four best candidates from those that remain on the list.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2886560708

[Didz]

Ok! Well thanks for all the advice. I'm moving on with my game now and I'm reasonably happy with my choices. They may not be historically accurate but I'm reasonably confident that the people I chose were the best characters for the job based upon what the game was telling me.

I'm busy now stripping and re-assigning items toi make sure all the Factionwide items are assigned to Court Ministers.

I also ended up with a lot of new Administrators after the reshuffle so I have to make sure they all have full retinues and have the best Administered Commandery items assigned to them. i also noted somewhat late that the 'Authority' trait boosts the Ministerial bonus of Court Ministers so I've had to go through and change their inventory to maximise their authority traits.

But that's all good and easily sorted.

On an immediate plus note, i discovered that several 'Imminent Rebellions' have instantly faded away and their commanderys are now gaining public order thanks to the bonuses. Which means I've been able to disband three of my armies which were on overwatch duty. Saving a lot of money.

Still gradually sorting out the building synergy for some of the newly acquired WU settlements though the AI seems to have do fine with most of them. Just a slight tendency to build Commerce boosting buildings in a peasant based settlement particularly if it has a logging camp rather than a farm. Not sure what the AI was aiming for with that idea.