Caltrops now useless?

[Delta-Kilo]

After the last update, I noticed an unexpected and unwelcome change to the game mechanics- caltrops doing practically no harm to opposing forces.
Before, I found them to be very helpful in fighting on the defensive. Placed in choke points, or using them to booby trap abandoned arrow towers if the game spawns in indefensible locations you must relocate from, and you might take out an enemy unit or two. Combine them with a well sighted arrow barrage and the battle might be over before it even begins. No longer.

Now I've seen entire enemy armies march back and forth over them and suffer no apparent ill effects. At most they might lose one or two solders out of 2000, but no more. I've had long, drawn-out battles in and around, and on top of them, and they still do nothing.

Is this just me? Is it a glitch? Was this an intended effect in the patch notes that I missed? If the latter, they went overboard. (naturally, if it's a glitch, I'd like to know how to fix it!)

[Tisiphone Edge]

It isn't a glitch. The 1.7.0 patch notes noted that they're now 90% less effective.

[Delta-Kilo]

Many thanks; I'll stop using them as they are now totally pointless.

[Gonger]

I favor the change, I don't think caltrops should be a lethal bomb.

[Delta-Kilo]

Lethal bomb, no; useless one, a bit too much. It doesn't fullfill it's historic purpose in any way: cripple enemy soldiers, disrupt and delay enemy movements. As it stands, they should just remove it from the game and have done. There's no point to having it now.

[Ryan]

Its not an unwelcome changed. I found them completely overpowered. There no point in getting high tier unit if they get wiped out by Caltrops. If the enemy has more men then they can just throw it at me and i loose. They are useful for slowing down men and cavalry for your archer to fire at. I notice the ai would throw them at the wall before climbing and would loose lots of men. Custom battle are now playable so I can see real fighting instead of the ai just throwing things at me.

[panderusw]

IMO, the problem with Caltrops is not the damage(damage does need to tone down like -25%), but the way AI/players utilize caltrops. The AI use caltrops as a short rage projectile weapon instead of traps.

I am pretty sure many of us have that WTF moment when enemy Ji Militia walk right in front of your yellow dragon, lay down some caltrops and kill 30% of your yellow dragon without taking any damage themself.

I think caltrops should be a pre battle deployable,
-- less damage (maybe -25%-30% from patch 1.6)
-- first reform give you 2-3 caltrops, this help in defensive battle ala choke point etc but not so much on open battle field. Second reform give you 4-6, thus it play some role in open field.
-- loose formation give maybe -50% to caltrops damage.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by panderusw:

IMO, the problem with Caltrops is not the damage(damage does need to tone down like -25%), but the way AI/players utilize caltrops. The AI use caltrops as a short rage projectile weapon instead of traps.

I am pretty sure many of us have that WTF moment when enemy Ji Militia walk right in front of your yellow dragon, lay down some caltrops and kill 30% of your yellow dragon without taking any damage themself.

I think caltrops should be a pre battle deployable,
-- less damage (maybe -25%-30% from patch 1.6)
-- first reform give you 2-3 caltrops, this help in defensive battle ala choke point etc but not so much on open battle field. Second reform give you 4-6, thus it play some role in open field.
-- loose formation give maybe -50% to caltrops damage.

1.6 caltrop could kill 60-80 men easily depending on your unit size so 90% less damage is good. 25% less damage is still very op. If it was only predeployable then maybe but I think if the Ai was attacking they would still predeploy it and walk right over it.

[Darklordnj]

Honestly, the primary use of the caltrops should’ve been to slow down the enemy, like to buy time before a cav charge. Prior to 1.7, this was definitely not the case, so I definitely approve of the change.

[panderusw]

if the AI walk over their own caltrops, then it is an AI issue instead of the caltrops. At -90%, caltrops kill maybe 2 in a 120 unit size, thus make it less desirable but not totally useless(still have slow effect).

I believe a retinue in tight formation walk over a caltrops(mine field) should take more casualty than that(maybe 5-10 per 120 unit). Having 2(with 1 reform) or 4 (with 2 reform) as pre battle deployable at maybe -25~-30% damage is not really OP, IMO.

My main point is that caltrops should not be use as a short range projectile weapon but as traps.

[Siodog]

Originally posted by Darklordnj:

Honestly, the primary use of the caltrops should’ve been to slow down the enemy, like to buy time before a cav charge. Prior to 1.7, this was definitely not the case, so I definitely approve of the change.

This

[Delta-Kilo]

Originally posted by Siodog:

Originally posted by Darklordnj:

Honestly, the primary use of the caltrops should’ve been to slow down the enemy, like to buy time before a cav charge. Prior to 1.7, this was definitely not the case, so I definitely approve of the change.

This

I concurr with the sentiment, but the change did not render this effect. Caltrops are now a feature that can be safely ignored by your opponent with essentially no consequence. It inflicts practically no damage, doesn't slow them down a jot, nor disrupts their formations in any way. The change rendered it useless.

[AlternativeXinba]

I agree with the -90% damage nerf, but CA really should have given caltrops a debuff utility, such as lowered movement speed and negate charge bonuses. Honestly, the biggest issue with vanilla is that everything BUT infantry are OP.