Total War: THREE KINGDOMS

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS

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Guvenoren Nov 30, 2019 @ 10:57pm
New to TW:3K
I've played Total war games too many hours, so I know the gameplay ropes. However, I am new to the fantasy and history of 3k. Anything I should know?

Are there any good and evils? Nemesises? Etc
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
THEDOSSBOSS Nov 30, 2019 @ 11:23pm 
Over 4000 hours of experience with warhammer? Seems you know a lot more than just "the ropes"

It seems you are asking for lore information. Whilst I am not an expert, there are some tidbits I picked up on

Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian were the ones who ended up forming the actual three kingdoms: the Wei, the Shu, and the Wu respectively.

Dong Zhuo was the last leader of the Han Dynasty, using the child emperor as a puppet to gain influence over all of China. He was a tyrant, and through his actions, the Han eventually collapsed into a series of small kingdoms and warlords fighting amongst themselves until the three kingdoms solidified their influence and power over their third of the country. Dong Zhuo is the big bad in the game, and you'll often be prompted to defeat him by many of the factions

Zheng Jiang and Zhang Yan are bandits, and as such I guess they can be antagonists to the rest of the factions, whether those factions are "good or evil"

Yuan Shao formed the first coalition consisting of many of the warlords in the game to try and defeat Dong Zhuo (liu bei, Cao Cao, and Sun Jian all used to be apart of this coalition among others). However, due to Yuan Shao's incompetence, the coalition broke apart. This game is set just after that happens afaik.

Everyone else is basically just fighting to be the new emperor of china

There are really no real "good" factions, as every faction is naturally self-interested and set on the goal of becoming emperor. They are all opportunistic and sometimes do things that would make them best buddies with Hitler. Also, aside from Dong Zhuo, there are no real bad guys. It's not like warhammer where the difference between "order" and "chaos" is quite clear. Even the factions that serve Dong Zhuo at the start of the game are honorable about how they do it, seeing no choice but following the will of the Han, which they swore allegiance to. There are pricks and ♥♥♥♥♥ amongst the warlords, but no clearly defined "good" and "evil"
Guvenoren Dec 1, 2019 @ 2:04am 
Oh, I see. Kind of like Warhammer in a sense were, yes there is order, death, destruction and chaos categories, they commonly different shades of evil
THEDOSSBOSS Dec 1, 2019 @ 2:10am 
Originally posted by Guvenoren:
Oh, I see. Kind of like Warhammer in a sense were, yes there is order, death, destruction and chaos categories, they commonly different shades of evil
Yup
RustyRed Dec 1, 2019 @ 3:22am 
um .... just talking about the backstory of the Three Kingdoms can take 100s or hours. To be honest, it took me a few years of learning bits and pieces here and there to get a general picture of what happened and how things came to be. Even having spent so much time, I still feel like there's much more to know - especially the events that occurred after Cao Cao passed away. There are a lot of names to remember and the similarities of the names makes it even harder to remember who is who.

As for the stories I find interesting:

Cao Cao and Xu Chu combo is my favourite. Xu Chu was a large and intimidating warrior who scared people with just his physical appearance alone. He was also someone who was extremely loyal and protected his lord on several occasions when the odds were against them. Xu Chu was so scary that Ma Chao and his men wouldn't dare to attack Cao Cao even though it was just the two of them (Cao Cao and Xu Chu) meeting him (Ma Chao) and Han Sui's group.

Sun Jian and his son Sun Ce were respectable, and then there's Jian's other son, Sun Quan, who was a double crosser and overly suspicious of other people. Despite Sun Quan's betrayals, he did so with the intent to protect his people. My favourite stories from Wu were how Sun Ce recruited Taishi Ci, and Lu Su selling off his properties to help the unfortunate. When Sun Quan thought of surrendering to Cao Cao, it was Lu Su who convinced him to resist and protect what his brother and father fought for.

Then there's Liu Bei. It was said that he was a descendant of the royal family. Liu Bei rose to power from selling straw mats and sandals with his mother. What we do know about Liu Bei is that he was a very persuasive person. Of Liu Bei's people, the one I liked most was Wei Yan. Not only was Wei Yan level headed, he also knew how to capitalise on opportunities. Unfortunately, he was too smart for his own good and was killed by scumbag Yang Yi, after Zhuge Liang's death.

There's a lot of interesting stories from each side, but those are some of my favourites. You can find their stories on wikipedia, but be weary that some of that information is a mix between actual history and the romance novel. Then again, the events happened so long ago that you should take things with a grain of salt.
woodhawk109 Dec 2, 2019 @ 6:33pm 
Three Kingdoms is like the the Illiad or the Legend of King Arthur equivalence in China. It's almost a required literature reading for students in Chinese schools. There are even worships of some of the characters, so in that aspect, it's almost like the Chinese Bible.


There's a Chinese drama series on Youtube that basically covers 90% of the era. Many people on the Total War subreddit were obsessed with it for a couple months or so after this game was released. If you have some time, give it a watch. It's 95 episodes total at 45 minutes each, so beware. You don't have to watch all of them, the game's current campaign only have characters and conflicts up to about episode 20 or so, with a few exceptions.

But most people who watched it loved it. It's an incredibly well-done drama with lots of political intrigues and interesting characters. The only downsize is the battle scenes because the budget for the show is less than one episode of Game of Throne.Watching the series may be enough to get you up to speed on the playable lords and their star generals and might even give you a favorite that you want to play in the game.

Search up "Three Kingdoms 2010" and there should be a few playlist with most of the episodes. some were copyrighted but you can probably find the missing ones on other channels/playlists

Buuut, if you want the short of it. here's a summary based on the novel:

Three Kingdoms refers to the eventual three Dynasties established by Liu Bei, Cao Cao and Sun Quan, arguably the novel's three main characters.

Notable characters are:

Liu Bei - protagonist goody two shoes - cries a lot but is also very charismatic - has a Shakespearean tragic hero character arc
Cao Cao - main antagonist - Liu Bei's main rival and nemesis - ambitious and brilliant but is also suspicious and cruel
Sun Jian - the Sean Bean of the era - badass but..... eh you know.
Sun Ce - Sun Jian's eldest son, shares the Sean Bean gene with his dad
Sun Quan - Sun Jian's other son - he got left with the land that his father acquired and the responsibilities
Dong Zhuo - the novel's first major boss fight basically - an evil tyrant who ruled with an iron fist.
Lu Bu - most famous warrior of the era - in the novel, he's also the strongest warrior, period. The Darth Vader to Dong Zhuo's Emperor Palpatine

And there' are about a couple hundreds other characters that you'll probably get to know as you watch/read more about the era.

If you have the money, you can also get Dynasty Warriors 8 on Steam (don't get 9, it sucks) and get acquantainced with the characters there. DW is basically the anime, more simplified version of the story.

You can also search up "Oversimplified - Three Kingdoms" for a humorous summary of the era to get started.
Qwertykov Dec 2, 2019 @ 8:04pm 
Originally posted by xuthan:
um .... just talking about the backstory of the Three Kingdoms can take 100s or hours. To be honest, it took me a few years of learning bits and pieces here and there to get a general picture of what happened and how things came to be. Even having spent so much time, I still feel like there's much more to know - especially the events that occurred after Cao Cao passed away. There are a lot of names to remember and the similarities of the names makes it even harder to remember who is who.

As for the stories I find interesting:

Cao Cao and Xu Chu combo is my favourite. Xu Chu was a large and intimidating warrior who scared people with just his physical appearance alone. He was also someone who was extremely loyal and protected his lord on several occasions when the odds were against them. Xu Chu was so scary that Ma Chao and his men wouldn't dare to attack Cao Cao even though it was just the two of them (Cao Cao and Xu Chu) meeting him (Ma Chao) and Han Sui's group.

Sun Jian and his son Sun Ce were respectable, and then there's Jian's other son, Sun Quan, who was a double crosser and overly suspicious of other people. Despite Sun Quan's betrayals, he did so with the intent to protect his people. My favourite stories from Wu were how Sun Ce recruited Taishi Ci, and Lu Su selling off his properties to help the unfortunate. When Sun Quan thought of surrendering to Cao Cao, it was Lu Su who convinced him to resist and protect what his brother and father fought for.

Then there's Liu Bei. It was said that he was a descendant of the royal family. Liu Bei rose to power from selling straw mats and sandals with his mother. What we do know about Liu Bei is that he was a very persuasive person. Of Liu Bei's people, the one I liked most was Wei Yan. Not only was Wei Yan level headed, he also knew how to capitalise on opportunities. Unfortunately, he was too smart for his own good and was killed by scumbag Yang Yi, after Zhuge Liang's death.

There's a lot of interesting stories from each side, but those are some of my favourites. You can find their stories on wikipedia, but be weary that some of that information is a mix between actual history and the romance novel. Then again, the events happened so long ago that you should take things with a grain of salt.

I finally managed watched the 1994 drama and read the novel. The show was fantastic and the book, utterly captivating. Now I understand why it is so popular in Asian cultures. I'm trying to get my hands on the Records 三国志 to know more about the period and the characters. Do you think you have any good related material to recommend? Preferably in English.
Last edited by Qwertykov; Dec 2, 2019 @ 8:07pm
Guvenoren Dec 2, 2019 @ 8:16pm 
Jesus I don't wanna do any backround reading or watching movies or 95 episode 45 minutes each series. No way I wanna get THAT into the series. I just wanna have a oversimplified overview of each character, good or bad in inbetween. All I require. Maybe even why is not too bad of a read.

I did watch the oversimplified video. It was quite helpful, but not enough as most of the characters in this game I have no clue.
RustyRed Dec 2, 2019 @ 10:25pm 
Originally posted by Guvenoren:
Jesus I don't wanna do any backround reading or watching movies or 95 episode 45 minutes each series. No way I wanna get THAT into the series. I just wanna have a oversimplified overview of each character, good or bad in inbetween. All I require. Maybe even why is not too bad of a read.

I did watch the oversimplified video. It was quite helpful, but not enough as most of the characters in this game I have no clue.
lol, you said it yourself. Short videos don't provide enough information. It takes time to learn the story. There's just too much names and events to cover. Even if you did watch the 2010 series, it doesn't cover much about the yellow turbans, the eunuchs, Dong Zhuo's rise to power, or many of the notable generals from Wei. E.g. we get scenes of Zhang Liao being friends with Guan Yu, but we don't get the one where he was surrounded by Sun Quan's men, escaped, then came back to rescue the remaining survivors who got trapped. Sun Quan shat himself and watched as Zhang Liao and his men escape. In future encounters, Sun Quan started going around demoralizing his troops by telling them to be careful around Zhang Liao. The 2010 series does have Sun Quan expressing his shame of losing at Hefei, but we never get to see it happen (or maybe I've forgotten ...).

Originally posted by qwertykov:
I finally managed watched the 1994 drama and read the novel. The show was fantastic and the book, utterly captivating. Now I understand why it is so popular in Asian cultures. I'm trying to get my hands on the Records 三国志 to know more about the period and the characters. Do you think you have any good related material to recommend? Preferably in English.
I've seen the 2010 series but I haven't seen the 1994 series nor have I read the novel.
My main sources were wikipedia and translations of texts from here[kongming.net]
The Former Dec 3, 2019 @ 7:22pm 
The real, real short of it:

Dong Zhuo is evil. Pretty unambiguously.

Cao Cao is generally portrayed in an antagonistic role, although this isn't necessarily historical. Historically, he was simply known for using cutthroat methods when he needed to. He is, however, universally known as a brilliant military mind who wasn't half bad at administration, either. Some accounts portray him as a womanizer, for whatever that's worth.

Liu Bei is portrayed as a virtuous hero with fiercely loyal sworn brothers. He's THE "good guy" of the romantic retellings. However, historically, he was a bit more morally grey. The Three Brothers are still held up on a pedestal (more Guan Yu than anyone else), but Liu Bei is historically recorded to be more of an opportunistic warlord than he was in the romance, as far as I'm aware.

Sun Jian is portrayed as a family man. He puts the glory of his house and the future of his children above all else. Historically he died early on in the period, so there's not a tremendous deal to say, but he and his kids were the "wild cards" of the three. His elder son, Sun Ce, was a military genius who lived fast and died young, and his younger son, Sun Quan, went from underdog to serious contender.

Everyone else is a historical satellite around these three, as these were the three who remained at the end of the era. You'll have to dig a bit more to learn about them, as they don't fall into my "real, real short" description.
Qwertykov Dec 3, 2019 @ 7:32pm 
Originally posted by xuthan:
I've seen the 2010 series but I haven't seen the 1994 series nor have I read the novel.
My main sources were wikipedia and translations of texts from here[kongming.net]

Thanks for the link. Lots of info and very well organised. Neat. Watch the 1994 version, its better. Rougher round the edges but the brilliant actors more than makes up for it. It's not the classic version for nothing. :)

Check out this scene, one of the best scenes from 1994. Zhuge Liang debates the Wu Scholars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO2_vcHTqvk&t=6s
Last edited by Qwertykov; Dec 3, 2019 @ 8:03pm
Qwertykov Dec 3, 2019 @ 8:01pm 
Originally posted by Sheriff of Nothingham:
The real, real short of it:

Dong Zhuo is evil. Pretty unambiguously.

Cao Cao is generally portrayed in an antagonistic role, although this isn't necessarily historical. Historically, he was simply known for using cutthroat methods when he needed to. He is, however, universally known as a brilliant military mind who wasn't half bad at administration, either. Some accounts portray him as a womanizer, for whatever that's worth.

Liu Bei is portrayed as a virtuous hero with fiercely loyal sworn brothers. He's THE "good guy" of the romantic retellings. However, historically, he was a bit more morally grey. The Three Brothers are still held up on a pedestal (more Guan Yu than anyone else), but Liu Bei is historically recorded to be more of an opportunistic warlord than he was in the romance, as far as I'm aware.

Sun Jian is portrayed as a family man. He puts the glory of his house and the future of his children above all else. Historically he died early on in the period, so there's not a tremendous deal to say, but he and his kids were the "wild cards" of the three. His elder son, Sun Ce, was a military genius who lived fast and died young, and his younger son, Sun Quan, went from underdog to serious contender.

Everyone else is a historical satellite around these three, as these were the three who remained at the end of the era. You'll have to dig a bit more to learn about them, as they don't fall into my "real, real short" description.

For me, the supporting characters are equally as fascinating as the main characters. The contribution of brilliant historical individuals such as Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Fa Zheng, Zhou Yu, Pang Tong, Xu Shu, Sima Yi, etc is nothing short of immense and amazing.

The exemplary displays of courage, heroism and loyalty by the likes of Zhao Yun, Zhang Liao, Xu Shu, Dian Wei, Taishi Ci, Xu Huang, Xiahou Dun, Huang Gai, Zhou Tai are equally as awe-inspiring and important. Without them, Liu Bei and Cao Cao would be dead many times over and Sun Quan wouldn't even be born.

Without capable characters like Lu Su, Zhang Zhao, Mi Zhu, Xun Yu, Xun You, Sun Qian, Jian Yong, etc, the Three Kingdoms would be impossible to govern. Which is why Biographies of them all amazingly exists in the Records.

All these characters deserve their place in history, all of them embody qualities we all can learn from. Without them there would be no tale to tell, no game to play and no history to begin with. Total War: Three Kingdoms merely scratched the surface.
Last edited by Qwertykov; Dec 3, 2019 @ 8:30pm
The Former Dec 3, 2019 @ 9:11pm 
Originally posted by qwertykov:
Originally posted by Sheriff of Nothingham:
The real, real short of it:

Dong Zhuo is evil. Pretty unambiguously.

Cao Cao is generally portrayed in an antagonistic role, although this isn't necessarily historical. Historically, he was simply known for using cutthroat methods when he needed to. He is, however, universally known as a brilliant military mind who wasn't half bad at administration, either. Some accounts portray him as a womanizer, for whatever that's worth.

Liu Bei is portrayed as a virtuous hero with fiercely loyal sworn brothers. He's THE "good guy" of the romantic retellings. However, historically, he was a bit more morally grey. The Three Brothers are still held up on a pedestal (more Guan Yu than anyone else), but Liu Bei is historically recorded to be more of an opportunistic warlord than he was in the romance, as far as I'm aware.

Sun Jian is portrayed as a family man. He puts the glory of his house and the future of his children above all else. Historically he died early on in the period, so there's not a tremendous deal to say, but he and his kids were the "wild cards" of the three. His elder son, Sun Ce, was a military genius who lived fast and died young, and his younger son, Sun Quan, went from underdog to serious contender.

Everyone else is a historical satellite around these three, as these were the three who remained at the end of the era. You'll have to dig a bit more to learn about them, as they don't fall into my "real, real short" description.

For me, the supporting characters are equally as fascinating as the main characters. The contribution of brilliant historical individuals such as Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Fa Zheng, Zhou Yu, Pang Tong, Xu Shu, Sima Yi, etc is nothing short of immense and amazing.

The exemplary displays of courage, heroism and loyalty by the likes of Zhao Yun, Zhang Liao, Xu Shu, Dian Wei, Taishi Ci, Xu Huang, Xiahou Dun, Huang Gai, Zhou Tai are equally as awe-inspiring and important. Without them, Liu Bei and Cao Cao would be dead many times over and Sun Quan wouldn't even be born.

Without capable characters like Lu Su, Zhang Zhao, Mi Zhu, Xun Yu, Xun You, Sun Qian, Jian Yong, etc, the Three Kingdoms would be impossible to govern. Which is why Biographies of them all amazingly exists in the Records.

All these characters deserve their place in history, all of them embody qualities we all can learn from. Without them there would be no tale to tell, no game to play and no history to begin with. Total War: Three Kingdoms merely scratched the surface.

I absolutely agree, but I wanted to give a real quick and dirty overview, so I focused on the primary warlords at the climax of the era (plus Dong Zhuo who ostensibly started it all). Without a doubt, though, the figures around these warlords are no less fascinating to study and have no less compelling tales. (Which is one reason I'm holding out hope that Cheng Pu will become a Legendary soon...)
Daryl Dec 3, 2019 @ 10:25pm 
nothing really matters.

except in the end.


Cao Cao's strategist Sima Yi and his descendants would usurp everything and make the future Jing Dynasty.
The Former Dec 4, 2019 @ 4:05pm 
Originally posted by Daryl:
nothing really matters.

except in the end.


Cao Cao's strategist Sima Yi and his descendants would usurp everything and make the future Jing Dynasty.

Technically it does matter, though. If events didn't play out as they had to put Cao Wei on top, Sima Yi wouldn't have had an empire to usurp. It may not seem like it matters in hindsight, but every story has an and. That doesn't mean the course of the story doesn't influence how that end plays out.

It's kind of like saying "Nothing in Lord of the Rings really matters except the part where Frodo throws the ring into the lava. The good guys win in the end, so the struggle is all just pointless fluff."
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Date Posted: Nov 30, 2019 @ 10:57pm
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