three kingdoms starting date?

[lonewolf]

is thier a mod that starts the game at the actual formation of the three kingdoms, wei,wu and shu. seems a bit strange not to have that as a start date.

[Anapoda]

can't say i understand their logic for dlc. 8 princes? who ever cared about that? mandate of heaven? that's just before the normal start of the game, who cares?

now, a real proper dlc with shu, wei and wu, yes, now that would at least make a bit of sense.

[GamerCH]

Originally posted by lonewolf:

Originally posted by Ivanka 46th:

This is the 3K starting date. The 3 Kingdom kings are all there and you get to play them and establish them and then duke it out between them.

It would be stupid to have the main game start in 220.

except its impossible for the three kingdoms to get formed in the game due to liu bei postion, so i cant have the three kingdoms clash, which is why i said its strange since its called three kingdoms.

it would be like having a game called ww2, but you can only play the events of the 1930s.

First of all there are scripts in place that make Liu Bei unify with the other Lius among them the one in Shu. Second of all you too can do that.

Finally, Total War campaigns never follow the historical events. The starting date is historical and that is it. From there on out its a sandbox where everything can happen. There are some historical scripts to have major historic events sort of happen yes, and there are some gamemechanics in place to make them sort of do what they more or less did historically too, but it really is a sandbox.

Liu Bei went to Shu out of desperation. If he would have won a few more fights previously he might have never gone there or Wu would have taken it or whatever.

Afer the game released many people in the forum wrote that they were surprised to see that the 3 Kingdoms actually happened to be the historical ones. Apart from those that claimed Yuan Shao dominated it all, which is something I personally never observed. Hardly surprising, Liu Bei & Cao Cao & Wu are the strongest factions in the game. Especially Liu Bei with his heroes.

3 Kingdoms is more about the heroes, less about the established kingdoms. Otherwise people like Guan Yu and Cao Cao and so on would all be dead. It is stupid to say it should have started there.


Many WW2 games do not feature Japan. Some don't even feature the Russians. Others just do Stalingrad.


In due time this game will cover all of the 3K era with the chapter packs.


It would be wise to actually inform yourself before lamentating.

[GamerCH]

Originally posted by Anapoda:

can't say i understand their logic for dlc. 8 princes? who ever cared about that? mandate of heaven? that's just before the normal start of the game, who cares?

Its 1 year earlier thats 4 turns lol if thats your biggest gripe with it then oh boy.

[Jerroser]

Originally posted by Ivanka 46th:

Originally posted by Anapoda:

can't say i understand their logic for dlc. 8 princes? who ever cared about that? mandate of heaven? that's just before the normal start of the game, who cares?

Its 1 year earlier thats 4 turns lol if thats your biggest gripe with it then oh boy.

Actually its 8 years, which is 40 turns in game. Still not a massive amount of time, but enough for there be a be crucial difference in the starting set up.

[GamerCH]

Depends on where you draw the line, 184 is the earliest date more or less that still counts.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Anapoda:

can't say i understand their logic for dlc. 8 princes? who ever cared about that? mandate of heaven? that's just before the normal start of the game, who cares?

now, a real proper dlc with shu, wei and wu, yes, now that would at least make a bit of sense.

I care. I really want to see one set in 263 or so, just before the final cataclysmic campaigns against Shu and the usurpation of Wei. I want more history of the period, the WHOLE period, and history going into the Era of Disunity. Gimme Five Barbarians. Gimme Northern and Southern Dynasties, all Sixteen Kingdoms (ok maybe not all of them, but definitely Late Liang and Northern Wei near the end). Three Kingdoms from 184-~208 has been done to DEATH. 214-220 shows up in most Three Kingdoms games as well, which I bet will show up in TW3K too (as it should). But beyond 220 is rarely made. I would bet a huge chunk of people who played older Dynasty Warriors, people who are into this game, don't know who Deng Ai or Ding Feng or Zhuge Ke are.

[Hex]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Originally posted by Anapoda:

can't say i understand their logic for dlc. 8 princes? who ever cared about that? mandate of heaven? that's just before the normal start of the game, who cares?

now, a real proper dlc with shu, wei and wu, yes, now that would at least make a bit of sense.

I care. I really want to see one set in 263 or so, just before the final cataclysmic campaigns against Shu and the usurpation of Wei. I want more history of the period, the WHOLE period, and history going into the Era of Disunity. Gimme Five Barbarians. Gimme Northern and Southern Dynasties, all Sixteen Kingdoms (ok maybe not all of them, but definitely Late Liang and Northern Wei near the end). Three Kingdoms from 184-~208 has been done to DEATH. 214-220 shows up in most Three Kingdoms games as well, which I bet will show up in TW3K too (as it should). But beyond 220 is rarely made. I would bet a huge chunk of people who played older Dynasty Warriors, people who are into this game, don't know who Deng Ai or Ding Feng or Zhuge Ke are.

The reason it doesn't go beyond that is because it stops being "The Three Kingdoms" and becomes just "Jin Dynasty#"

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by Haddon:

I care. I really want to see one set in 263 or so, just before the final cataclysmic campaigns against Shu and the usurpation of Wei. I want more history of the period, the WHOLE period, and history going into the Era of Disunity. Gimme Five Barbarians. Gimme Northern and Southern Dynasties, all Sixteen Kingdoms (ok maybe not all of them, but definitely Late Liang and Northern Wei near the end). Three Kingdoms from 184-~208 has been done to DEATH. 214-220 shows up in most Three Kingdoms games as well, which I bet will show up in TW3K too (as it should). But beyond 220 is rarely made. I would bet a huge chunk of people who played older Dynasty Warriors, people who are into this game, don't know who Deng Ai or Ding Feng or Zhuge Ke are.

The reason it doesn't go beyond that is because it stops being "The Three Kingdoms" and becomes just "Jin Dynasty#"

Charlemagne goes way beyond the title of Attila. Wrath of Sparta is way before Rome became a power. Rome 1 had Alexander, which had absolutely nothing to do with Rome (Rome wasn't even in the game). Medieval 2 had the Americas campaign, 70 years after the Medieval period came to a close. Three Kingdoms already has a DLC after the Three Kingdoms period. So clearly the title of the main game doesn't dictate what expansions/DLC will be.

[GamerCH]

Charlemagne is actually more of a SAGA title than a dlc imo but doesn't count as one since its incorperated into Attila. FOTS is standalone and Charlemagne isn't.

These dlc, Rise of the Samurai as well, they showcase a different era than the main game. Shogun 2 was Sengoku. ROTS isn't Sengoku.

Total War Three Kingdoms is specifically Three Kingdoms and not TW:China. So until they have covered all of 3K properly I hope they stay away from any other time eras and that seems to be what they intend of doing.

I am sure they noticed the cries for Korea and maybe in 2 years or so we will get that kind of addon or SAGA title for 3K. 3K sold so well they are bound to cover more of Asia and Shogun 2 is a 10 year old game by now.

Rome is the eternal city so no matter which time they chose it would fit xD

The title of the game does dictate which dlc we get but not entirely and not forever. Charlemagne was a very late dlc for Attila. Before that we got the one with Belisarius.

We haven't had a blackpowder game in so long, it really is time for a new one. Mongools or Korea or who knows. CA probably has their plans. I kinda bet we disrupted their plans quite a bit as I am sure originally the chapter packs were not supposed to cover the 3K era.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Ivanka 46th:

Charlemagne is actually more of a SAGA title than a dlc imo but doesn't count as one since its incorperated into Attila. FOTS is standalone and Charlemagne isn't.

These dlc, Rise of the Samurai as well, they showcase a different era than the main game. Shogun 2 was Sengoku. ROTS isn't Sengoku.

Total War Three Kingdoms is specifically Three Kingdoms and not TW:China. So until they have covered all of 3K properly I hope they stay away from any other time eras and that seems to be what they intend of doing.

I am sure they noticed the cries for Korea and maybe in 2 years or so we will get that kind of addon or SAGA title for 3K. 3K sold so well they are bound to cover more of Asia and Shogun 2 is a 10 year old game by now.

Rome is the eternal city so no matter which time they chose it would fit xD

The title of the game does dictate which dlc we get but not entirely and not forever. Charlemagne was a very late dlc for Attila. Before that we got the one with Belisarius.

We haven't had a blackpowder game in so long, it really is time for a new one. Mongools or Korea or who knows. CA probably has their plans. I kinda bet we disrupted their plans quite a bit as I am sure originally the chapter packs were not supposed to cover the 3K era.

Yeah, I am fine with them not adding Sixteen Kingdoms or Warring States for several years. I agree, flesh out the Three Kingdoms era first. I think 8 princes is a fine topic, it was just a poor choice for a first DLC.

Sui/Tang/3K Korea/Yamato is a perfect Saga title. So is the Chu-Han contention.

As to blackpowder, I think (said it before) Mongol is perfect; get the VERY beginning of blackpowder warfare, all the way through to the end of the Medieval period. Would also make for a perfect setting to sate the thirst for some Medieval (Mongols in the Levant and eastern Europe), and for a game that includes China, Korea and Japan in one.

[Hex]

There is still so many things missing entirely, like Nanman for example. And really, I don't think Jin would be rally that fun since it's just huge unified kingdoms duking it out. TW has always been many small factions duking it out.

[GamerCH]

For all its worth thanks to 8 Princes I learnt about it. Wouldn't have otherwise. I barely looked into the early years of hte Yellow Turban rebellion so now I'll be doing that some more.

These dlc are a nice motivation to look at the history of the times they cover.

With some luck we'll soon get one of these for the next dlc

https://youtu.be/RaQ4sSe-dGM

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Hex:

There is still so many things missing entirely, like Nanman for example. And really, I don't think Jin would be rally that fun since it's just huge unified kingdoms duking it out. TW has always been many small factions duking it out.

The Jin were only a huge, unified empire for a short time. Starting in the early 4th century, like in the first decade, there are a series of rebellions that start, that eventually spark a series of absolutely massive invasions on China by what are called the Five Barbarians. Think of Rome with the Goths, Huns, Alemanni, Franks. And it isn't all at once, it is in several waves, and just like with Rome, those barbarian invaders settle down, become Sinicized, create their own kingdoms and start warring with each other, while the remnant of the old empire tries desperately to hold on. Though, in the case of China, there is no equivalent of the Eastern Roman Empire, almost the entirety of China (not modern China of course, much smaller area) becomes controlled by these Sinicized former-barbarians in time (over the next 200+years). The ethnic Han moved down south in droves, and didn't manage to retake China and reunify until...589 if my memory serves, when the Sui came to power (though they didn't last long).

So doing the Western Jin wouldn't really be very interesting, I agree. But the Eastern Jin might be kinda neat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_dynasty_(266%E2%80%93420)#/media/File:China400ce.png This is over-simplified as well, because the Jin dynasty by that point was foundering, very similar to how the Han had, and authority was less centralized, so it could absolutely be broken into a few factions under local warlords (it is also after they had retaken some land in central China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Kingdoms down near the bottom are some maps and a timeline that show how tumultuous the period was. And then the Jin are finally usurped, and the ethnic Han are still only one of many states for quite awhile longer. That one is much more like an Empire Divided kinda period, with three (sometimes two, a couple times four) major contenders with a bunch of smaller factions out on their periphery. Until Emperor Wen of Sui finally, through some crazy political backstabbing and some really good luck, reunifies China. And then his son and successor almost immediately throws it away trying to build canals and trying to conquer Korea (the Korean invasion was an absolute disaster), and a rebellion starts, and the Tang take over and create another Chinese Golden Age. Well, not a Golden Age if you were Korean or Vietnamese or Tibetan.

[lonewolf]

Originally posted by Ivanka 46th:

Originally posted by lonewolf:

First of all there are scripts in place that make Liu Bei unify with the other Lius among them the one in Shu. Second of all you too can do that.

Finally, Total War campaigns never follow the historical events. The starting date is historical and that is it. From there on out its a sandbox where everything can happen. There are some historical scripts to have major historic events sort of happen yes, and there are some gamemechanics in place to make them sort of do what they more or less did historically too, but it really is a sandbox.

Liu Bei went to Shu out of desperation. If he would have won a few more fights previously he might have never gone there or Wu would have taken it or whatever.

Afer the game released many people in the forum wrote that they were surprised to see that the 3 Kingdoms actually happened to be the historical ones. Apart from those that claimed Yuan Shao dominated it all, which is something I personally never observed. Hardly surprising, Liu Bei & Cao Cao & Wu are the strongest factions in the game. Especially Liu Bei with his heroes.

3 Kingdoms is more about the heroes, less about the established kingdoms. Otherwise people like Guan Yu and Cao Cao and so on would all be dead. It is stupid to say it should have started there.


Many WW2 games do not feature Japan. Some don't even feature the Russians. Others just do Stalingrad.


In due time this game will cover all of the 3K era with the chapter packs.


It would be wise to actually inform yourself before lamentating.

first off, i dont know of any sandbox ww2 game that doesnt have russia or japan.

second point its a sandbox game so nobody is expecting a historic simulator, but a game called three kingdoms should at least make it possible to form the three kingdoms.its not called fall of the han dynasty. the yellow turban rebellion, and dong zhou tyranny are events that lead up to the three kingdoms. total war shogun doesnt start in the onin war even though that war directly influences the fall of the shogunate.

if your worried about some heroes being dead by 220 such as cao cao and guan yu, then 209 would be a excellent starting point, as liu bei is in the south, sun ce has conqured south east, but thier is still various factions left for, cao cao, and liu bei to fight againgst.

all i have really said was it was strange that a game called the three kingdoms, doesnt actually have the three kingdoms, if they add a starting point in 209 or later, i would be pretty happy, but that doesnt mean someone cant have a opinion on the starting point of the game. as it currently is.

[GamerCH]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/476600/Call_of_Duty_WWII/

Literally only USA vs Germany.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/919640/Steel_Division_2/

The first one was like that CoD. This one has no Japanese and no Asia.

Oh a sandbox one? err... are there any sandbox ones? Surely we can find some sandbox ww2 game that doesn't cover the whole world but only hitler or africa or something. But I am too uninterested to look them up.