The Mod that Nerfs Yuan Shao into oblivion.

[RitualistEssence]

https://www.sendspace.com/file/zd19eb
Here's a mod i made to nerf Yuan Shao into oblivion with debuffs that will cause his faction to die off. Yuan Shao Faction debuff list: +25% upkeep costs, -75 public order, -400 diplomacy & -75 character satisfaction. Yuan Shao has been castrated. I'm using this until CA fixes the Yuan Shao bug
To install: place .pack file into the games Data folder. Its a movie .pack so it won't need any use text file to make it run. Doing mods this way until we get a steamworkshop for the game.

[Darth Alpharius]

Originally posted by Jcpsr:

Originally posted by CriXx:

What bug?

He vassals half the games map within 30 turns people have been saying.

He not that much of a threat for me any more.

[forumcrybaby]

Originally posted by Jun Aldrake:

I mean. I've literally removed Yuan Shao on the map no problem on hard difficulty on both campaign and in battles as both Huang Shao from the Yellow Turbans and Kong Rong.

I've played 3 big campaigns and never had a problem with Yuan Shao in either three.

It's just about learning to like...Actually adapt to a new TW game and figure out how to beat stuff instead of going.

THIS GUY LOOKS OP LEMME CRY ABOUT IT REEEE.

Strategies, my son, strategies.

If you were a real ROT3K fan and not just a "total war" player you would see why people have an issue with this. Just like how CA butchered Sengoku Jidai with Shogun 2 (turn 2 the Oda, Shimazu, Uesugi and Mori clans are already dead) they have also butchered the 3 kingdoms. The AI Cao Cao should take the central plains while Yuan Shao takes He bei. Then they face off. The vassalizing everyone is a stupid mechanic created by the devs to attempt to be edgy. "Gee Yuan Shao was leader of the coalition so therefor he should be able to force diplomacy on everyone." Sorry CA. Cao Cao recommended Yuan Shao lead the coalition and aside from that, none of the other warlords really liked Yuan Shao. They could've done this game very differently. After refunding the game early on I am personally gona wait for mods to come out that might make this game more reminiscent of a Three Kingdoms experience and not just Total War with a three kingdoms skin on it. Yuan Shao and Cao Cao should end up as near equal powered rivals midgame period.

[Drowsy Louis]

A lot of players are failing the diplomatic challenge of the game, this is to be expected i guess.

[Ultrabot]

Originally posted by ScrmblesThDethDealr:

If you were a real ROT3K fan and not just a "total war" player you would see why people have an issue with this. Just like how CA butchered Sengoku Jidai with Shogun 2 (turn 2 the Oda, Shimazu, Uesugi and Mori clans are already dead) they have also butchered the 3 kingdoms. The AI Cao Cao should take the central plains while Yuan Shao takes He bei. Then they face off. The vassalizing everyone is a stupid mechanic created by the devs to attempt to be edgy. "Gee Yuan Shao was leader of the coalition so therefor he should be able to force diplomacy on everyone." Sorry CA. Cao Cao recommended Yuan Shao lead the coalition and aside from that, none of the other warlords really liked Yuan Shao. They could've done this game very differently. After refunding the game early on I am personally gona wait for mods to come out that might make this game more reminiscent of a Three Kingdoms experience and not just Total War with a three kingdoms skin on it. Yuan Shao and Cao Cao should end up as near equal powered rivals midgame period.

The whole point of a total war Grand Campaign is this, though. Everything starts more or less how it should, and from that point on it diverges.

There will be chapter DLC's that follow the novel more closely, but the point of the GC is to create your own story.

[¤ Nova]

Originally posted by Fewnmeyer:

Originally posted by ScrmblesThDethDealr:

If you were a real ROT3K fan and not just a "total war" player you would see why people have an issue with this. Just like how CA butchered Sengoku Jidai with Shogun 2 (turn 2 the Oda, Shimazu, Uesugi and Mori clans are already dead) they have also butchered the 3 kingdoms. The AI Cao Cao should take the central plains while Yuan Shao takes He bei. Then they face off. The vassalizing everyone is a stupid mechanic created by the devs to attempt to be edgy. "Gee Yuan Shao was leader of the coalition so therefor he should be able to force diplomacy on everyone." Sorry CA. Cao Cao recommended Yuan Shao lead the coalition and aside from that, none of the other warlords really liked Yuan Shao. They could've done this game very differently. After refunding the game early on I am personally gona wait for mods to come out that might make this game more reminiscent of a Three Kingdoms experience and not just Total War with a three kingdoms skin on it. Yuan Shao and Cao Cao should end up as near equal powered rivals midgame period.

The whole point of a total war Grand Campaign is this, though. Everything starts more or less how it should, and from that point on it diverges.

There will be chapter DLC's that follow the novel more closely, but the point of the GC is to create your own story.

Ah yes, they expanded on the new diplomacy system so we can exclusively negotiate with Yuan Shao and his horde of yes men. They focused on all these unique characters and their personalities only to become bland, mindless drones.

No, TW is a sandbox war game that lets you pick your best course of action. A campaign with variety and unexpected challenges - not the same nonsense every time. We shouldn't be forced to prioritize Yuan Shao because the game behaves weird. If anyone should be in this position it's Dong Zhuo to actually put a logical threat in the game and to create tension between the warlords. Instead everyone just becomes incompetent and they all love each other for no apparent reason.

CA already acknowledged that this is not intended so you can all stop acting smart about how people can't handle this "challenge". (@Jayxo, etc)

[Ultrabot]

That's more of a balancing issue, the post I replied to was unhappy that it does not follow the novel more closely.

[RitualistEssence]

Part of the reason for the big nerf on Yuan Shao was cause i was already in a campaign where he had already vassaled the whole map so it was like i was fighting only 1 faction instead of a variety of powers & i needed something that would break up his vassals so that other factions would become powerful & it would have better immersion with there being multiple super powers to fight against.

I 've now toned down the mod to only give negative diplomacy bonus to Yuan Shao to make it harder for him to Vassal other factions all while Yuan Shao still being able to survive & still being able to Vassal factions he has decent relations with. I'll upload the new version in bit.

[You know my name.]

I like the people on here saying "quit crying" or mocking other people even when the game creators stated that its not working as intended and they have to fix it.

[bearfieldlee]

I'm 230 turns into a Sun jian campaign and don't even remember encountering Yuan Shao. He certainly doesn't exist now. Its me and another big power to my west and the north is totally fragmented and no threat.

[Ultrabot]

Originally posted by Jcpsr:

Part of the reason for the big nerf on Yuan Shao was cause i was already in a campaign where he had already vassaled the whole map so it was like i was fighting only 1 faction instead of a variety of powers & i needed something that would break up his vassals so that other factions would become powerful & it would have better immersion with there being multiple super powers to fight against.

I 've now toned down the mod to only give negative diplomacy bonus to Yuan Shao to make it harder for him to Vassal other factions all while Yuan Shao still being able to survive & still being able to Vassal factions he has decent relations with. I'll upload the new version in bit.

Sounds like a fair solution ^. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar in a patch(the overall effect, I mean). I've been killing him off by turn 30 to 40 (though that's not an option if you don't start close).

[RitualistEssence]

Version 1.2 https://www.sendspace.com/file/eh3a6z
Only 1 Nerf: -75 Diplomacy for Yuan Shao which is toned down from the -400 value. Still testing to see if its still too strong of a nerf.
A smaller diplomacy nerf should be enough to limit the amount of factions willing to join him as a Vassal all while still allowing him to powerful since he has the low upkeep for his armies.

[RitualistEssence]

Originally posted by Fewnmeyer:

Originally posted by Jcpsr:

Part of the reason for the big nerf on Yuan Shao was cause i was already in a campaign where he had already vassaled the whole map so it was like i was fighting only 1 faction instead of a variety of powers & i needed something that would break up his vassals so that other factions would become powerful & it would have better immersion with there being multiple super powers to fight against.

I 've now toned down the mod to only give negative diplomacy bonus to Yuan Shao to make it harder for him to Vassal other factions all while Yuan Shao still being able to survive & still being able to Vassal factions he has decent relations with. I'll upload the new version in bit.

Sounds like a fair solution ^. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar in a patch. I've been killing him off by turn 30 to 40 (though that's not an option if you don't start close).

It did work on causing his Vassals to declare independence but the value was too strong meaning everyone declared war on him lol, and the other nerfs meant his towns went into rebellion & his characters defected

I'm testing to see if -75 diplomacy is too much for him or not enough. A new campaign is where i 'll really be able to tell as within the first 30 turns will see how many vassals he has or if everyone declares war on him.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Jayxo:

Originally posted by Dregora:

While his vassal stuff is certainly overtuned, I also believe it's a player mentality that thinks you should be able to be the biggest. I think previous total war games caused this mentality. Generally you start off as the biggest or become the biggest within a dozen or so turns. It wasn't really hard.

Here? Much harder. You're not supposed to be the biggest and strongest. Not all the time, not early game and you should get opposition.

You can dismantle him, it just requires effort more than ''let me battle everything like a god''.

THIS. i cant agree more, people expect to just steamroll everything while also complaining at the same time that the ai is dumb????????????????? OH i also love it when people complain about ai cheating as soon as the ai sends like 2 full stack armies to their base LMAO its hilarious. but yeah i could not agree more, ive managed to completely wipe Yuan Shao from my campaign as Cao Cao and that was a long slog. He eventually surrendered to me and i took everything he owned. I was able to use him but i took his stuff and set him free. was going to execute him but i want to see if i can see him pop back up in another army somewhere down the track haha

I'm not complaining about it, but the ai does in fact cheat. So those complaints are about something thats legitimately happening, but lets be serious the total war ai are not sophisticated enough to compete without cheats.

The thing about the ai is that the way they stop you from steamrolling is stalling. Like for example I had one just sitting 2 retinue stack of 0 health units in my territory. Its basically I just have a public order penalty, and there's nothing I can do about it because they'll run away. But this in no way can be considered hard, because they're literally wasting 2 retinues doing nothing.

I haven't had the problem with yuan shao, but for example playing ikko ikki in Shogun 2 I had an experience I would assume is probably pretty similar. Namely, every faction hated me, they all declared war, and they all just threw armies at me. It wasn't too hard, it was just impossible to do anything. I was under attack by so much stuff I couldn't actually replenish, and I couldn't push out cause I was getting attacked every turn. I had basically stabilized in terms of defense, so all the game was at that point was waiting till I had enough to push out. Which was gonna take like 30-40 turns. Then the ai probably would land an army past my walls and I'd have to go send my army back to deal with that instead of pushing out. I was legit gonna just do nothing for like 50 turns until my growth kicked in and all my armies were level 9, and then I was gonna steamroll. That campaign was just obnoxious so I quit.

The problem is what I'd be looking for in a good ai isn't something its capable of. I would be looking for an ai that can actually compete on the battlefield, and aggressively takes fights. Probably needs to cheat so it can actually produce more armies than me. And then I want the ai to actually use these armies to fight me instead of running around trying to sack minor settlements. I can't tell you how many campaigns in Warhammer I get into a fight with a big faction, only for them to split all their armies up and run past me. Instead of a challenging fight, I get to play cleanup. There's a literal 0 risk I lose, but they're probably gonna sack a few cities before I kill them. That isn't a challenge, its just annoying.

I would guess Yuan Shao if you don't kill him in the first 30 turns is more like my Ikko Ikki campaign, where I was just constantly under attack from all directions by semi-threatening armies, than like Warhammer where they split their armies into forces that can't actually do anything. But even then, minor settlement battles are really easy to win at least if they don't have fire arrows. It wasn't yuan shao but when every faction declared war on me, there were a couple actual threats, but it was mostly just cleaning up stacks trying to backcap random settlements. If that's what fighting Yuan Shao is like, then he's obnoxious.

In my campaign he wasn't super annoying though, he just sent like 3 stacks straight at me in my campaign, but I caught him on like turn 30 and he didn't have a billion vassals yet (or I was already at war with them, half the factions I met declared war on me at that point). And I don't play legendary. I think if I ended up having to recruit 2 retinues at home to defend a bunch of minor settlements from enemies I can't see coming from fog of war from 20 vassals attacking me, I'd probably have just gotten annoyed and quit. Minor settlement battles aren't fun, with the only exception I've seen being Western Rome where there was a legitimate challenge and you had enough stuff you could afford to lose some.

Tbh though, I doubt its as bad as people are claiming. Can't be worse than Shogun where every faction always declares war on you no matter what.

[Chapel]

His vassals don't last. Be chill, and bide your time.

I just demolished him in Hard mode with Gonsun Zhan when he had twice as many counties. I was his best friend until the Bandit Queen asked if he'd mind attacking me and for some reason he happily obliged. If he's large you're going to have to take his territory eventually anyway.

[Shineshine]

haha thats so bad. Yeah I was using Liu Bei apparently Yuan Shao will his influence etc. What I do I befriend Kong Rong and we together have been great to repel everything, I also stay friendly with Cao Cao and the neighbours. I go conquering a few territories just above Sun Jian and establish my dominance and supported Yuan Shu For emperor. Cao Cao war with Yuan Shao while I just keep moving and south. By Turn 75 Yuan Shao is left with 2 cities only.

Think tehres quite a few scenarios no how we play, its pretty fun though.