Why are the Qiao Sisters so old?

[Kuromiya]

Just got the Qiao Marriage event for Sun Ce and Zhou Yu, and not only are they fairly unimpressive generic generals instead of Legendaries, they're like ten years older than Sun and Zhou! What the hell am I supposed to do with a wife in her mid-thirties?! It's hard enough getting kids from a marriage as it is; are we supposed to just divorce them? Send them on a trip to Belize?

[alex010300]

Must be a bug, send a ticket to the Devs.

[:PLG: ThatOneHound]

Dude, You are clouded by the romanticized version of them. Or more like the fanticized version of them by Dynasty Warrior series since they're pretty minute characters even in the novel version. I mean they don't even have their names recorded.

As for their ages, it is unknown for when they were born so I took it it is CA's license to devise up something for their game.

There were no records of their beauty except for the romanticized novel and later media derived from it though. So, I guess how they portray them is quite alright.

[alex010300]

This is lame, romance mode should have them in their teens and good generals in their own right with a unique design. Those two aunties should just be in record mode only.

[Kuromiya]

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

As for their ages, it is unknown for when they were born so I took it it is CA's license to devise up something for their game.

So they decide to "devise up" a pair of dumpy, talentless women well past their fertile years to be the primary wives of Sun Ce and Zhou Yu? Two of the most powerful men in China at the time, who would have had their pick of any ladies they wanted, and in Sun's case, would have been under severe socio-military-economic pressure to find a Prime Waifu who was actually capable of bearing children?

lol, ok. If that's your fantasy, have fun with that - but you should also admit that it's unrealistic (less realistic than DW, even!) and try to understand why most people will find the inclusion of cringey, Walmart-tier Qiaos to be problematic.

[BloodyPork]

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

Dude, You are clouded by the romanticized version of them. Or more like the fanticized version of them by Dynasty Warrior series since they're pretty minute characters even in the novel version. I mean they don't even have their names recorded.

As for their ages, it is unknown for when they were born so I took it it is CA's license to devise up something for their game.

There were no records of their beauty except for the romanticized novel and later media derived from it though. So, I guess how they portray them is quite alright.

See, the problem is that they look old enough to be Sun Ce's mom.

We know CA's preference of making women intentionally ugly for the sake of political correctness, this is why TW Warhammer has tons of beautify mods. It's not hard to make the females attractive, it is simply a choice to make them unattractive for some virtue signaling points.

Normal war game has either no female general (realism), or attractive females (fan service). Games with a lot of ugly females are "progressive" feminist friendly games. The fact that Zheng Jiang is as strong as the famous male generals AND the fact that she's not attractive says it all. Hard to blame CA given their office location and the political pressure there, gotta get those virtue signaling creds from the SJWs after all.

This is why based asian/east european devs need to step up to fill the void of progressive socjus devs who are more focused on pleasing NPCs and pushing political agendas rather than sticking with the traditional game design choices.

[Kuromiya]

Originally posted by BloodyPork:

It's not hard to make the females attractive

Heck, CA don't even have to make them hot, just make them between 18-24 so we can start a family before the Qiaos die of old age!

I think it should be a law that anyone defending this game will be required to play Crusader Kings II for a hundred hours, then come back and write three-page essay on what they learned.

[Straybow]

I have learnt that I should have married Ce to Ren, thx m8.

[Kuromiya]

Originally posted by Lysimarkos of Ermor:

I have learnt that I should have married Ce to Ren, thx m8.

Eff yeah you should!

Is that even possible in this engine? Because if so, Ren will be coming of age in a couple years, and Da Qiao is getting on the wrong end of my Spymaster, if you know what I mean.

Praise the Sun! Zun is Love!

[Poljanan]

The problem is that a lot of women in this game are too damn old. I finally got a wife for Sun Quan and she was a legendary character, Lady Cai, and a 2 turns later I got a notification telling me to replace her and I was like WTF. I realized too late that she was already 62 years old when I hired her.

So much for all those ancillaries and food I paid just to get her.

Also,

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

There were no records of their beauty except for the romanticized novel and later media derived from it though. So, I guess how they portray them is quite alright.

The game literally has a mode for the Romance version of the game. More like CA is saving up all the pretty women for DLC like with Diaochan.

[alex010300]

Let the SJWs have record mode. Romance mode is where are the fan service is at.

[:PLG: ThatOneHound]

Originally posted by BloodyPork:

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

Dude, You are clouded by the romanticized version of them. Or more like the fanticized version of them by Dynasty Warrior series since they're pretty minute characters even in the novel version. I mean they don't even have their names recorded.

As for their ages, it is unknown for when they were born so I took it it is CA's license to devise up something for their game.

There were no records of their beauty except for the romanticized novel and later media derived from it though. So, I guess how they portray them is quite alright.

See, the problem is that they look old enough to be Sun Ce's mom.

We know CA's preference of making women intentionally ugly for the sake of political correctness, this is why TW Warhammer has tons of beautify mods. It's not hard to make the females attractive, it is simply a choice to make them unattractive for some virtue signaling points.

Normal war game has either no female general (realism), or attractive females (fan service). Games with a lot of ugly females are "progressive" feminist friendly games. The fact that Zheng Jiang is as strong as the famous male generals AND the fact that she's not attractive says it all. Hard to blame CA given their office location and the political pressure there, gotta get those virtue signaling creds from the SJWs after all.

This is why based asian/east european devs need to step up to fill the void of progressive socjus devs who are more focused on pleasing NPCs and pushing political agendas rather than sticking with the traditional game design choices.

I look at this problem from another perspective though. The problem here, i think, is not how CA portray the Two Qiaos badly but the whole 'minor' characters badly.

Seriously, I understand that Three Kingdoms universe is huge and there are tons of characters.

It would take huge ton of resources to create unique models and portraits and it might not be worth it in their opinions and I understand that.

But then again, as a veteran player of ROTK series, it was worth it.

Right now TTW three kingdoms feels a bit... lifeless despite all the nice art style, custscenes, amazing voice over and, of course, the gameplay and the lack of unique portraits of these characters contibute a lot.

Man, I wish CA would see to this and do it right. Right now it seems all minor characters are just RNG-made and doesn't really make sense to someone very familiar with the lore at all.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

Originally posted by BloodyPork:

See, the problem is that they look old enough to be Sun Ce's mom.

We know CA's preference of making women intentionally ugly for the sake of political correctness, this is why TW Warhammer has tons of beautify mods. It's not hard to make the females attractive, it is simply a choice to make them unattractive for some virtue signaling points.

Normal war game has either no female general (realism), or attractive females (fan service). Games with a lot of ugly females are "progressive" feminist friendly games. The fact that Zheng Jiang is as strong as the famous male generals AND the fact that she's not attractive says it all. Hard to blame CA given their office location and the political pressure there, gotta get those virtue signaling creds from the SJWs after all.

This is why based asian/east european devs need to step up to fill the void of progressive socjus devs who are more focused on pleasing NPCs and pushing political agendas rather than sticking with the traditional game design choices.

I look at this problem from another perspective though. The problem here, i think, is not how CA portray the Two Qiaos badly but the whole 'minor' characters badly.

Seriously, I understand that Three Kingdoms universe is huge and there are tons of characters.

It would take huge ton of resources to create unique models and portraits and it might not be worth it in their opinions and I understand that.

But then again, as a veteran player of ROTK series, it was worth it.

Right now TTW three kingdoms feels a bit... lifeless despite all the nice art style, custscenes, amazing voice over and, of course, the gameplay and the lack of unique portraits of these characters contibute a lot.

Man, I wish CA would see to this and do it right. Right now it seems all minor characters are just RNG-made and doesn't really make sense to someone very familiar with the lore at all.

I think it's more noticeable in this game because this game brings the characters into a bit more focus. I like the character art style (I don't care about the models so much) and simply would like more of it.

[:PLG: ThatOneHound]

Originally posted by KickySonichu:

Originally posted by :PLG: ThatOneHound:

As for their ages, it is unknown for when they were born so I took it it is CA's license to devise up something for their game.

So they decide to "devise up" a pair of dumpy, talentless women well past their fertile years to be the primary wives of Sun Ce and Zhou Yu? Two of the most powerful men in China at the time, who would have had their pick of any ladies they wanted, and in Sun's case, would have been under severe socio-military-economic pressure to find a Prime Waifu who was actually capable of bearing children?

lol, ok. If that's your fantasy, have fun with that - but you should also admit that it's unrealistic (less realistic than DW, even!) and try to understand why most people will find the inclusion of cringey, Walmart-tier Qiaos to be problematic.

I am sorry if this statement offend you somewhat(if not, you should consider adjusting your tone since it might bring some misunderstandings.)

I too want to see minor character fleshed out in some deserving manner. For an example, since I play Cao Cao most of the time, Cao ren, Cao Pi and Cao Ang. All are quite prominent character both in history and novel. Alas, they were portrayed as generic character(Cao Pi even looks older than his father's portrait.)

When I say I understood that it was CA's license to devise it up for the game, it didn't mean I agree on how they did it. I simply stated my opinion on the matter and I accept it for what it is. That why I said it was quite alright at this point in time.

The way they are portraying the two Qiaos is not correct by any means imaginable(of couse, along with tons of characters who are now some 'faceless' officers) and I would like to see some improvements soon along with other character who are also, or even more, deserving of some respects.

[{O|G} Erik the Red]

Hehe, In my Cao Cao campaign, Xiao Qiao ended up in my candidates pool. I bought her up, but she's really high maintenance with wanting promotions and such, so I made her chancellor. She also doesn't pair well with Cao Cao's wife, Lady Bian. However, she certainly doesn't look like a beauty to be coveted.

And there lies the problem with the character representation. Its a world where anyone, no matter the gender, is equal in ability and opportunity, which would be fine if believed it was only a few on ability and merit; but there is a distinct lack of feminine traits and court princesses or harems that would make up the majority of female roles. Its like half the game is missing from a social perspective. Are we to believe all the marriages were to wives who are battle hardened, armor ladened, administrators?

[BloodyPork]

Originally posted by {O|G} Erik the Red:

Hehe, In my Cao Cao campaign, Xiao Qiao ended up in my candidates pool. I bought her up, but she's really high maintenance with wanting promotions and such, so I made her chancellor. She also doesn't pair well with Cao Cao's wife, Lady Bian. However, she certainly doesn't look like a beauty to be coveted.

And there lies the problem with the character representation. Its a world where anyone, no matter the gender, is equal in ability and opportunity, which would be fine if believed it was only a few on ability and merit; but there is a distinct lack of feminine traits and court princesses or harems that would make up the majority of female roles. Its like half the game is missing from a social perspective. Are we to believe all the marriages were to wives who are battle hardened, armor ladened, administrators?

Historical revisionism. Sexualizing female qualities or feminization of women would offend some easily offended SJWs for "objectifying women."

It's all about politics. When politics is absent, look at Koei three kingdoms series, where they try to make the women as beautiful as possible to increase sales for obvious reasons.