When your spy becomes a faction leader.

[Hollywood]

Did CA seriously not think about this? Like, sure it's probably rare, but my spy actually became faction leader of one of my main enemies, why is there no immediate vassalization option? Makes 0 sense that the worst you can do when your spy becomes faction leader is start a small civil war, when this is China, the land of supreme rulership without objection.

[ChaosKhan]

Supreme rulership without objection huh...

You do realize, that this game is about a civil war where there is tons of objection to rulership from every possible side?

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Supreme rulership without objection huh...

You do realize, that this game is about a civil war where there is tons of objection to rulership from every possible side?

Yeah, a fictional story about a time when a 500 year old empire finally fell.

[Honch Nasty]

They probably thought about it since they added an achievement for it.

[Wren]

There is a reason they call the period chaotic. It wasn't a time of supreme rule at all, it was an endless cycle where eunuchs and generals would usurp power from child emperors whenever an emperor would die.

They never had an effective system to prevent corruption from court members which is what lead to the ultimate fall of the han. But the han was one of many dynasties that suffered this fate.

However, the Han was when this had escelated to a point that the yellow turban rebellion erupted, which meant that countless warlords had to fight to defeat them all across china. At which point because of unrest in the capital, Dong Zhou saw a chance to take the current child emperor for himself.

After multiple significant events that the other warlords disagreed with, the large scale coalition was formed. This is touched in a fair bit in the game but is not really explained fully and in detail.

The point is, supreme rule was far from a thing, before, and even after the three kingdoms.

Even the three kingdoms themselves suffered the same fate. After the time of the big names fell, corruption took hold once again. The Sima clan took over wei and saw that Shu and Wu had also suffered their own corruption.

This was when the stalemate finally ended, and the Jin dynasty was formed.

Idk what happened after. But there you go.

The full story can be interpreted in countless different ways, especially so with the fictional element of the novel.

What you should know though is that the historical versions of some of the big names were actually just as cool and as badass as their romance counter parts. Zhao Yun kinda became a meme.

Prick him with a needle and he will bleed to death. For example >.>

This was due to how untouchable he was, which is why in romance mode, he is so focused one evasion. My current campaign has him nearly at 200 expertise lol.

Back on topic though. Three Kingdoms is one of the most chaotic periods in all of earths history.

[Toaster Maximus]

Sounds like the spy got a taste of real power and is doing his own thing now, better take your army and spank him

[Dreagon]

Originally posted by hollywoodkik:

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Supreme rulership without objection huh...

You do realize, that this game is about a civil war where there is tons of objection to rulership from every possible side?

Yeah, a fictional story about a time when a 500 year old empire finally fell.

It's not fictional. It's simply a romanticized version of the true events.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Dreagon:

Originally posted by hollywoodkik:

Yeah, a fictional story about a time when a 500 year old empire finally fell.

It's not fictional. It's simply a romanticized version of the true events.

Sorry, I have trouble believing something written 1000 years after the time period is anything close to true events. Lol

But anyways, this is off topic now, still doesn't make sense that my spy who I'm still paying for and have complete control over with their spy actions now has their own faction and it gives me no bonuses. You incite them to start a civil war and they get like a 3 territory plot of land against the whole 30 territory faction they've inherited. They should have implemented something better for this event, even if it's not total subjugation or vassalization, perhaps things like taking control of certain armies, starting proxy wars, under the table payments, etc.

[RitualistEssence]

They need to make it be like it becomes ur puppet state like the Warsaw pact etc.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Jcpsr:

They need to make it be like it becomes ur puppet state like the Warsaw pact etc.

Originally posted by Jcpsr:

They need to make it be like it becomes ur puppet state like the Warsaw pact etc.

That's what I was thinking, a form of puppet state that doesn't necessarily have to be complete control or even obvious ownership, but something more that actually makes you feel like you have some form of control over the faction.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Zender Railen:

What you should know though is that the historical versions of some of the big names were actually just as cool and as badass as their romance counter parts. Zhao Yun kinda became a meme.

Prick him with a needle and he will bleed to death. For example >.>

This was due to how untouchable he was, which is why in romance mode, he is so focused one evasion. My current campaign has him nearly at 200 expertise lol.

On that topic, I read up on lu bu, and he seems way smarter than the romanticized version give him credit for. Overly arrogant and probably not as smart as cao cao, but if he was the meathead that the game and other media gave me the impression he was then he would have died like 10 times over before his actual death.

[Straybow]

I'd like a civil war with the spies side becoming a vassal. From what I've watched this isn't the case, correct?

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by Zender Railen:

What you should know though is that the historical versions of some of the big names were actually just as cool and as badass as their romance counter parts. Zhao Yun kinda became a meme.

Prick him with a needle and he will bleed to death. For example >.>

This was due to how untouchable he was, which is why in romance mode, he is so focused one evasion. My current campaign has him nearly at 200 expertise lol.

On that topic, I read up on lu bu, and he seems way smarter than the romanticized version give him credit for. Overly arrogant and probably not as smart as cao cao, but if he was the meathead that the game and other media gave me the impression he was then he would have died like 10 times over before his actual death.

Smart does not necessarily mean "has self-control". Sure, he was at least as intelligent as the average warlord needed to be at the time in order to rise to the top of his particular little hill, but his temper was legendarily able to get the better of him, and once he started drinking heavily as well...

[Baines]

Originally posted by Zender Railen:

This was when the stalemate finally ended, and the Jin dynasty was formed.

Idk what happened after. But there you go.

If you are curious, it didn't go well for Jin. China was back in chaos after a few decades.

Originally posted by hollywoodkik:

Sorry, I have trouble believing something written 1000 years after the time period is anything close to true events. Lol

There are legitimate historical records from the period. Unlike Romance of the Three Kingdoms, many of them are likely even mostly true. For example, Records of the Three Kingdoms was written by a historian who lived during the Three Kingdoms period.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

On that topic, I read up on lu bu, and he seems way smarter than the romanticized version give him credit for. Overly arrogant and probably not as smart as cao cao, but if he was the meathead that the game and other media gave me the impression he was then he would have died like 10 times over before his actual death.

Smart does not necessarily mean "has self-control". Sure, he was at least as intelligent as the average warlord needed to be at the time in order to rise to the top of his particular little hill, but his temper was legendarily able to get the better of him, and once he started drinking heavily as well...

Oh I'm not saying he didn't have flaws (although what I read had more about his arrogance, like it seems he severed potential relationships with the yuans with arrogance and saying they owed him for killing dong zhuo). I'm just saying an initial look at the media makes him look dumb.

Even stuff like temper seems like it applied to more than just him. There was something about Cao Cao killing thousands of civilians after his father's death and he left his territory undefended. Half the reason Lu Bu wanted to kill dong zhuo is because he got upset and almost killed Lu Bu (although nothing ever implied to me Dong Zhuo could handle his temper).

The wikipedia stuff says things like he switched alliances erratically and betrayed allies, and was always suspicious of others. But the thing is, the suspicion of others was logical, because a huge amount of them were trying to kill him. And it makes betraying allies make more sense (not to mention there seems to have just been a ton of that in general, its nothing specific to him). It says he couldn't control subordinates, but honestly it never seems like he got enough power that people wouldn't be prepared to betray him for a better deal (and he probably wasn't all that likable).

Basically what I'm trying to say is just that he made quite a few logical decisions along the way, but dramatized it seems like the entire focus is just on how strong a warrior he was. So I got the impression that if say yuan shao was trying to assassinate him in his sleep, he'd either get assassinated, or hear the assassins sneaking up on him and beat them in combat. Not sneak out and put a subordinate in his place.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Lysimarkos of Ermor:

I'd like a civil war with the spies side becoming a vassal. From what I've watched this isn't the case, correct?

Correct, it needs to be something more than what it is. It just feels like you gain the ability to cause a Yellow Turban Rebellion that gets cut down quicker than a fat kid starts to sweat in the summer. I understand if they are just in the royal court, then a small revolt is understandable, but when they are the supreme leader of their faction, they should get way more than one and a half commandaries when the faction has 12+ commandaries.

Regardless, there should be more options, there are actually no new options when your spy becomes faction leader. I think it's just one of those things that CA totally overlooked after awhile or couldn't decide what to do since it would be a semi-rare occasion.