Final Endgame Mission; Demanding Abdication

[Fried Noodles]

So... I just finished my campaign as Kong Rong, for the most part. I capture all three of the Imperial Seats and then moved on to the actual 'unification of China' bit where I must control 95 settlements or something like that. I only have like 67 currently.

The first time I captured the three Imperial Seats was when I was playing as Sun Jian, so as soon as I captured that last seat I immediately skipped the next step and won the game, thanks to my lack of opposition in the South.

That's kind of what Sun Jian looks like currently in my Kong Rong game. In this instance, Sun Jian, Shi Xie, and Gongsun Zan were the ones to declare themselves Emperor. Gongsun was sitting in a Lv.8 (or 9?) city all the way to the Northeast while Sun Jian relocated his capitol away from the Lv.10 city of Changsha down to one of the little Lv.4 nothings on the southern border... Literally a stone's throw away from Shi Xie.

I was able to confederate the Han Empire which gained me a bit of territory between Shi Xie and Sun Jian which proved very useful.

Sun Jian was my military ally (alongside Liu Bei) for pretty much the entire game. After he declared himself Emperor, we were still allies. I really didn't want to go to war with him since he was my old friend from my last game!

So I launched a concerted effort against Gongsun Zan and Shi Xie. Moved two armies into range of Gongsun Zan's Imperial Seat and raised two of my armies (led by Kong Rong and Sima Yi) down south, next to Shi Xie's territory. Shi Xie declared war on me first before I got the chance, but because I sent one of my Vanguard's on an assignment to the town I raised my two southern armies in, it only took one turn to muster.

I easily clobbered Shi Xie's forces... Odd that THEY'D be one of the top three dogs when Yuan Shao was still kicking around and was threatening enough that I kept sending them food to keep them sweet (more that I just didn't want the distraction!).

Gongsun's territory took a bit more work, his armies were more impressive. I also arranged a duel between LU BU (leading one of my northern armies) vs ZHAO YUN (who'd never joined Liu Bei). It was entertaining to watch... It seemed like Lu Bu had a huge advantage throughout the first bit of the duel, then out of nowhere Zhao Yun exploded with damage and forced Lu Bu to quit the field, gaining Gongsun's army a large morale boost for the quick victory.

Wasn't enough though, I defeated and captured his generals but opted to let Zhao Yun go because he is awesome and I want him.

Anyway... My main point of this simultaneous war was to capture both of the Imperial Seats on the same turn (while I was still allied with and super-best-friends with Sun Jian -- Big blue smiley face). I had hoped that since we were Oathsworn and at ~300 Relations that once I simultaneously claimed the two Imperial Seats, I could ask Sun Jian to abdicate so we could resolve the final bit peacefully.

Didn't work though.

Has anyone successfully gotten an emperor to abdicate their seat?

Also do you guys bother with the last bit of mop-up to achieve the final ending?

[Stargater]

Only time the enemy faction abdicated the the seat was after I defeated Sun Jian's armies many many times and had 6 armies surrounding his emperial capital.

I don't think there's a possibility or abdicating due to good relations between the two of you.

The game is made to be a constantly offensive game. You have to wage war to achieve anything significant.
Diplomacy and role-playing is handicapped by the game orientation towards offensive warfare.

[Fried Noodles]

Originally posted by Stargater:

Only time the enemy faction abdicated the the seat was after I defeated Sun Jian's armies many many times and had 6 armies surrounding his emperial capital.

I don't think there's a possibility or abdicating due to good relations between the two of you.

The game is made to be a constantly offensive game. You have to wage war to achieve anything significant.
Diplomacy and role-playing is handicapped by the game orientation towards offensive warfare.

That's a shame. Because a very large percentage of my early-mid game was relatively conflict-free after I sorted out the Yellow Turbans. I spent all my time building up my cities until I could grow no further, then I expanded by buying whole commanderies from my neighbors.
"What? You want 3.5K Gold a turn for 10 turns? I guess I don't need to install a solid-gold toilet in every home in Beihai until next year..."
It was a lot of fun being so wealthy I could just let everyone else around me fight for every i nch of territory only to have 'em hand it over to me so they could afford their armies for their next war. Meanwhile I am growing in wealth and technology with only a single standing army just for show. There was also almost no red on the map at all -- Everyone liked Kong Rong.

Now it's almost ALL red. Haha. Except for my newly vassalized Liu Bei and Cao Cao (of all people, my only Military Alliance member).

[Stargater]

Originally posted by Fried Noodles:

Originally posted by Stargater:

Only time the enemy faction abdicated the the seat was after I defeated Sun Jian's armies many many times and had 6 armies surrounding his emperial capital.

I don't think there's a possibility or abdicating due to good relations between the two of you.

The game is made to be a constantly offensive game. You have to wage war to achieve anything significant.
Diplomacy and role-playing is handicapped by the game orientation towards offensive warfare.

That's a shame. Because a very large percentage of my early-mid game was relatively conflict-free after I sorted out the Yellow Turbans. I spent all my time building up my cities until I could grow no further, then I expanded by buying whole commanderies from my neighbors.
"What? You want 3.5K Gold a turn for 10 turns? I guess I don't need to install a solid-gold toilet in every home in Beihai until next year..."
It was a lot of fun being so wealthy I could just let everyone else around me fight for every i nch of territory only to have 'em hand it over to me so they could afford their armies for their next war. Meanwhile I am growing in wealth and technology with only a single standing army just for show. There was also almost no red on the map at all -- Everyone liked Kong Rong.

Now it's almost ALL red. Haha. Except for my newly vassalized Liu Bei and Cao Cao (of all people, my only Military Alliance member).

You made me want to replay as Kong Rong again :).

He is a lot of fun and it feels like his play style is truly unique.
But at the end of the day, the game isnt made for every faction to have a unique experience unfortunately. That's why many of us are complaining about the lack of replayability.
It sucks.

[Fried Noodles]

As long as you don't pick one of the folks that really leans heavily into conquest like the Bandits or Big Dong, I wonder if you could achieve a similarly chill and commerce-based playthrough with one of the other leaders.

You might just have to work a little harder to build up your trade influence but as long as you properly specialize your settlements and take the right reforms it shouldn't be that tough.

I was thinking I might revisit playing as Ma Teng at some point, and take every opportunity to keep the peace and really invest in the Silks trade. Maybe deploy a single general by boat down south to around Shi Xie's territory and try to grab up the Spice. Then it's just a matter of paying off any potential belligerents while I focus on growth and ponies.

But... I also wanna play as one of the Yellow Turbans. He Yi was the first faction I tried when I bought the game and I had no idea what I was doing.

I think it's time to revisit ol' He Yi and HE MAN now that I have a slightly better idea of what's going on.

... Fanatical Xenophile Megacorporations are my favorite government type in Stellaris. I really enjoy the trade and diplomacy in these games. Though at least in Stellaris the endgame involves invaders from outside our galaxy or another dimension rather than a big three-way slug fest of former friends!

[Super Baked Guy]

I'm playing Kong Rong faction right now myself and for the most part it looks like our campaigns are somewhat a lit (expect i have Lu Bu to deal with, somehow he conquered the North West of the map. Except get this, I married Kong Rong to Sun Ren right when she became legal, made her the heir and 20 turns later Kong Rong died of old geezer syndrome and Sun Ren is the faction leader right now at age 23. And now she has to kill her family, i love how this game works, as soon as Sun Ren became faction leader my excitement for the game was rekindled. I ended up making her bang Xahou Dun before he dies so i can get rid of her Kong children and perserve the Sun family line.

But yes Wu will always be a monster kingdom in the end game, they have all game to just conquer the Han territories with little resistance.

[Fried Noodles]

Originally posted by Hingle McCringleberry:

I'm playing Kong Rong faction right now myself and for the most part it looks like our campaigns are somewhat a lit (expect i have Lu Bu to deal with, somehow he conquered the North West of the map. Except get this, I married Kong Rong to Sun Ren right when she became legal, made her the heir and 20 turns later Kong Rong died of old geezer syndrome and Sun Ren is the faction leader right now at age 23. And now she has to kill her family, i love how this game works, as soon as Sun Ren became faction leader my excitement for the game was rekindled. I ended up making her bang Xahou Dun before he dies so i can get rid of her Kong children and perserve the Sun family line.

But yes Wu will always be a monster kingdom in the end game, they have all game to just conquer the Han territories with little resistance.

Yeah, I'm just really fond of Lu Bu... Haha. I usually make a point of trying to pick him up.
He's usually quite an investment (unless you're willing to kill off a general to spot him in for free), but as Kong Rong, the ~9K he wanted to be deployed was kinda chump change.

Though I did pick him up quite a bit later than I usually do. My Kong Rong game is one of those weird ones where no one seems to die. Dong Zhuo was around until well in the Turn 70s, and it's Turn 120ish now and Sun Jian is still running around.

I was at war with Dong Zhuo for like 40 turns, and I'd kind of written off the possibility of recruiting Lu Bu this time around... But then everyone else started making peace with The Dong, so I figured I might as well too.

Then like two turns later, he likes me enough to give me a good deal on a Lu Bu marriage. I was surprised he wasn't already married!

Kong Rong is still alive in my game right now too, at Turn 120ish. I also brought Sun Ren into my army.

I'm currently floating... Six full armies. (36 retinues of Fury of Beihai -- I love Fury of Beihai, 12 retinues of Trebuchets, and lots of other things -- Though no fancy reform units.)

I didn't involve Sun Ren in my southern campaign just for RP reasons. :p She was in one of my two armies sent north to Gongsun Zan. And I left her there guarding the northern Imperial Seat as a garrison army. Though now I have Non-Aggression Pacts with both Gongsun Zan and Yuan Shao... We'll see how long that holds.

I think I still have Liu Huimin (Kong Rong's first wife) set as my heir. Mostly because she's still providing way more faction-wide bonuses than Sun Ren is gonna provide. :p

I hope Kong Rong doesn't die before I'm done! It'd be kinda cool for Sun Ren to take over, if I make her the heir... But she's really no replacement for Kong Rong in my eyes!

I've half a mind to make Taishi Ci my heir just because he was with me from the very start and he's still fairly young.

[The Real Henri]

I just had the AI accept an abdication request, and the game just froze. It was the first time I've ever seen it ever have a positive rating to accept. Very disappointing, I read the game also freezes if you offer to abdicate.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1883680085

[Fried Noodles]

Originally posted by The Real Henri:

I just had the AI accept an abdication request, and the game just froze. It was the first time I've ever seen it ever have a positive rating to accept. Very disappointing, I read the game also freezes if you offer to abdicate.

Yeah, the abdication thing does work if you dramatically overpower an enemy or have completely battered their forces in a war.
I was more curious if it was possible to request an abdication under peaceful situations -- But that doesn't seem to be possible.
I haven't had the opportunity or need to demand abdication during/after war though... I've captured the Imperial Seats each time I played a game to completion.

[Okita Asada]

Beat their armies a couple times, conquer some land and they will accept abdication. It's not very hard to achieve, though you won't get it right away.

[Harikajo]

true, Wu empire accept abdication while owning almost all south in 3\4 of my games. Just kill few armies on borders and get some territory

[vortex]

I've never been a le to get them to abdicate when I asked, but often times they'll offer.

I actually like this feature a lot. Once the enemy's been thoroughly beaten they'll give up, so you don't have to drag things out by still needing to conquer territories with nobody left who can really put a stop to you.