The fights agains humans are seriously retarded

[Drunkenpotato]

they are zero fun

[helvetica_standard]

Well, the combat seems to be built around those weird potted plant aliens so yeah.
Human fights make the flaws in the combat system show. And there's plenty.
If you're talking about the fight on phase 2, that one is overtuned and not expected to be beaten. Subsequent fights are far easier but no, they are not fun, that much we can agree on.

[verynize]

when fighting against humans i just change difficult to easy and spam X button because i can't see any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing

[awanderingswordsman]

My only issue is brain field attacks hitting for like 5x the other attacks so you just get surprise killed from 2/3rds health in one hit. Other than that the human battles aren't too bad, but they aren't good either. If there was a difficulty higher than hard they'd probably awful.

[Ginrikuzuma]

the human fights were the reason I took the game off hard. That and there is (thankfully) no achievement for playing in hard the whole way.
Just doling the whole thing on normal so I don't have to put up with the nonsense

[L.Oblivionis]

If you're playing Kasane route, some of the human bosses can be trivialized by staying in the air as much as possible. Many of them make attacks that will only hit you on the ground, and from there you just have to figure out which attacks they do that will clip you in the air.

[Geist]

They feel like endurance test. Plus since there isn't any hit stop you have to hit and run most of the time. Hasn't really been a problem though. Can always retry and use different tactics.

[awanderingswordsman]

There is hitstun actually but you have to break their super armor first. Then you can do a combo before their super armor comes back.

[helldweller]

I'm wondering how many of these there are. I only recall four so far, three of which weren't designed to be won. The most recent being a fight against the other playable character in the future, where all you had to do was stay away from him/her for a set amount of time. The same was true for Karen.

The one fight thus far that required a win -- at the end of the subway maybe; I can't remember her name -- was actually manageable. Don't get me wrong, this whole "survive the unwinnable fight" gimmick has gotten old now and I've never been a fan of it in the first place, regardless of how much I might enjoy a game overall.

I still have a lot of game left to play and was hoping these gimmick fights wouldn't be pervasive through the remainder. Wishful thinking?

[awanderingswordsman]

You have to win quite a lot of human boss fights. In fact, I'm pretty sure most boss fights are humans.

[Azukaos]

Originally posted by helldweller:

I'm wondering how many of these there are. I only recall four so far, three of which weren't designed to be won. The most recent being a fight against the other playable character in the future, where all you had to do was stay away from him/her for a set amount of time. The same was true for Karen.

The one fight thus far that required a win -- at the end of the subway maybe; I can't remember her name -- was actually manageable. Don't get me wrong, this whole "survive the unwinnable fight" gimmick has gotten old now and I've never been a fan of it in the first place, regardless of how much I might enjoy a game overall.

I still have a lot of game left to play and was hoping these gimmick fights wouldn't be pervasive through the remainder. Wishful thinking?

As far as i know 2 fights are actually "unwinnable" and that's when you are confronted to Karen and Old Yuito .

3 fights are actually winnable : Young Yuito, Kamoda (the weird lady you fight after naomi got changed) and Shiden

If there are others fight versus human then i didn't reach it yet, most of the time they are ok to deal with, but man thoses lvl 50 are no joke.

[wombowings]

its the group fights i dont like it gets entirely too chaotic

[Skid]

The issues with the human fights can be summed up with the issues with the combat overall. The combat is meant to be fast paced, but seems to completely ignore systems that make that kind of game sing. Namely:

Animation cancels, every attack puts you into an animation lock preventing you from dodging, which completely breaks the point of a fast paced combat on it's own, it means you have to consider if an attack is safe which slows the pace right down.

Dodge IFrames, executing a perfect dodge is rewarded if you use a dodge and avoid the hitbox of the attack, only then are you get given IFrames. The IFrames are mostly there so your counter is uninterpreted, but even that isn't long enough, you'll still take damage from a chain attack in the middle of a counter. The dodge itself has no IFrames no matter how quickly you use it. For example in both Bayonetta and Nier give you IFrames when you dodge, and Bayonetta extends your IFrames if that was right before the attack would land.

Unclear tells, this is more evident in the Human fights that have 0 tells for their basic combos, given that on hard these combos can strip you of 1/4rd of your HP in one hit at times you can loss half of your HP before you've even seen they started the combo because of how unclear their attacks are. Only Others have actual anticipations/windups to their attacks and even then, they pause unnaturally long at the end of their windup before they attack.

[awanderingswordsman]

Actually you are perma invincible when chaining perfect dodges and counters. You can dodge again before the i-frames end and trigger another perfect dodge. I use that quite frequently against Yuito where you can perfect dodge his 1st attack, counter, and then perfect dodge his 3rd attack right as the counter ends.

[Ⓝ]

The human fights are definitely not as well designed, but I never felt that they're particularly hard (at least those meant to be winnable lel). The simplest method is to just use a SAS that allows you to attack without worrying about getting hit (Gemma/Asashi), then spam Psychokinesis while waiting for those SAS to recover. Repeat until the target's dead. For the team VS team fights, it's probably easier to focus on the allies first before aiming for the main target, since they don't have as much HP and they don't resurrect.