How high can my rank go? Just curious

[Dopey Shepard]

So I'm doing successful diamond victories and adding +5/6 to my rank, now sitting at 1630, is it gonna go up indefinitely? Just asking. I know it doesn't really matter

[MangoEagle]

Yes it just goes up. I think it used to have a curve on it such that the more victories you got with a weapon the less your ranking went up on that weapon, but now it also takes enemy kills into account which basically gets rid of the curve.

[Dopey Shepard]

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

Yes it just goes up. I think it used to have a curve on it such that the more victories you got with a weapon the less your ranking went up on that weapon, but now it also takes enemy kills into account which basically gets rid of the curve.

I wonder why there's even a complicated system for something so insignificant. I remember when I started out I found info that your account rank determines the power of your weapons, but I think Flamethrower has that lvl 4 Fire Shot for every account ranking/level regardless, and Minigun has Escalating Shot at lvl 1, never increasing, same with Sniper Rifle having 1 Piercing Shot which now is basically invisible (used to be there as an active mod)

Wonder if we might have some actual changes in the future reflecting our rank

[Limdood]

If your weapons....or anything, really, got better as your account rose, it would just mean that as you played more, the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game.

A roguelite like this also shouldn't really get harder as you play more either, as that would just be frustrating. Pretty much every balanced roguelike/lite around (except the ones like Children of Morta, where you're intentionally underpowered in order to force a grind to get strong enough just to play where the game is balanced) follows the formula of not making the player stronger or weaker, just "more complicated" - by giving more options (that are all still roughly balanced against each other), which crab champions already does with the key totem. More options means a higher cap on what the player can do as a skilled player can combine all sorts of various arrays of items to do all sorts of things....but we never actually just "get stronger".

[Casurin]

I don't think there is - but also i never checked it cause it just never seemed to do anything.

Publicado originalmente por Limdood:

If your weapons....or anything, really, got better as your account rose, it would just mean that as you played more, the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game.

You ... you really dont want to make such sweeping wrong claims.
For many if not most games that is what you actually want. And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable.

[Dopey Shepard]

Yeah, I'm onboard with that. Why don't we have certain milestones for those playing on True Nightmare, where, if enough runs are completed, we are given a possible 2nd home totem perk of weapon's innate ability +1 level but then again, those weapons with no abilities will have nothing. Something to think about

[MangoEagle]

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

I don't think there is - but also i never checked it cause it just never seemed to do anything.

Publicado originalmente por Limdood:

If your weapons....or anything, really, got better as your account rose, it would just mean that as you played more, the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game.

You ... you really dont want to make such sweeping wrong claims.
For many if not most games that is what you actually want. And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable.

It's a rogue-like. When you add long lasting buffs it trivializes the game and nullifies any sense of balance. Also Ultra Chaos is mostly just bad getting into it. I have gotten a win on most weapons now and while there are still certain aspects that I don't like, receiving a buff is not necessary to beat it.

When you say "For many if not most games that is what you actually want", Those games are made for long term progress and balanced around it. They do not have a few global difficulties that are built for anyone starting out to be able to win. They rely on the permanent scaling to balance their game difficulty. These games rely on stat checks and crab champions does not. Even if you have a brand new account you are able to win True Nightmare or True Ultra Chaos.

[Limdood]

One of the commonly accepted definitions between roguelike and roguelite (although it tends to still be a much argued about topic) is that rogueLITES have meta-progression (gradual strengthening through grinding, like Children of Morta, or Gunfire Reborn or Rogue Legacy), whereas RogueLIKES have option-enrichment (Like Streets of Rogue, Crab Champions, Monster Train, and Slay the Spire).

There is a fundamental difference in how each type of game is designed. Switching from Like to Lite, or vice-versa, kinda requires a complete redesign of the game. Giving Crab Champions meta-progression means designing a range of difficulty levels commensurate with the scaling. Because the top CURRENT difficulties being effortlessly beatable just because I did grinding to be able to unlock extra bonuses for a run feels like it would be incredibly un-fun. That means adding new difficulties and balancing a whole new set of variables, which is a ton more work, because the game has to play well from the minimum progression to the maximum progression, and everything in between.


I'm all for being able to spend my keys on.....just a bunch of random crap. Starting a run with 4 or 5 specific upgrades. Building custom challenge runs, or custom ridiculousness runs.....but those are a great "bonus" to throw into a 1.0 game as a "here's a gamemode where you can do zany things, but can't unlock anything" type feature to extend the game's lifetime.

[Casurin]

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

It's a rogue-like. When you add long lasting buffs it trivializes the game and nullifies any sense of balance. Also Ultra Chaos is mostly just bad getting into it. I have gotten a win on most weapons now and while there are still certain aspects that I don't like, receiving a buff is not necessary to beat it.

never said it is necessary but right now that mode is borderline broken.

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

When you say "For many if not most games that is what you actually want", Those games are made for long term progress and balanced around it. They do not have a few global difficulties that are built for anyone starting out to be able to win. They rely on the permanent scaling to balance their game difficulty. These games rely on stat checks and crab champions does not. Even if you have a brand new account you are able to win True Nightmare or True Ultra Chaos.

Yeah - almost like i had chosen my words to not make sweaping claims and a fool of my self.

[MangoEagle]

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

It's a rogue-like. When you add long lasting buffs it trivializes the game and nullifies any sense of balance. Also Ultra Chaos is mostly just bad getting into it. I have gotten a win on most weapons now and while there are still certain aspects that I don't like, receiving a buff is not necessary to beat it.

never said it is necessary but right now that mode is borderline broken.

It is broken because its meant to be. Though trust me when I say that the more you play it the more manageable it becomes. It's not entirely a broken mess It has its own since of balancing and accompanying play style.

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

When you say "For many if not most games that is what you actually want", Those games are made for long term progress and balanced around it. They do not have a few global difficulties that are built for anyone starting out to be able to win. They rely on the permanent scaling to balance their game difficulty. These games rely on stat checks and crab champions does not. Even if you have a brand new account you are able to win True Nightmare or True Ultra Chaos.

Yeah - almost like i had chosen my words to not make sweaping claims and a fool of my self.

We are talking about crab champions which is just not built for it, so whether or not your making sweeping claims doesn't matter. There is a specific claim that I am addressing and that is about whether or not crab champions should have meta progression

[Casurin]

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

Yeah - almost like i had chosen my words to not make sweaping claims and a fool of my self.

We are talking about crab champions which is just not built for it, so whether or not your making sweeping claims doesn't matter. There is a specific claim that I am addressing and that is about whether or not crab champions should have meta progression

No it matter as lot - i was responding to a specific claim - YOU then ignore what that original comment was talking about. So no, it does matter - that's the point.

[Bug Guy]

the important thing here is that Crab Champions indeed should not have a large degree of meta progression. There is some, you obviously unlock new weapons and items as you play when you first start out, and some of those are important, but its not the typical type, where you get stat increases or "passive" bonuses. There may be room for a mode like that, some sort of separate thing from the base game. But the balance of this game is already so delicate, and I really appreciate that so much of the "getting better" at this game is just practice.

Ultra Chaos is also plenty playable, and is not meant to be balanced. Thats the point, its unfair. There should not be an intended mechanic that affects all gameplay and difficulties just to make the unfair difficulty more fair

[MangoEagle]

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

I don't think there is - but also i never checked it cause it just never seemed to do anything.

Publicado originalmente por Limdood:

If your weapons....or anything, really, got better as your account rose, it would just mean that as you played more, the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game.

You ... you really dont want to make such sweeping wrong claims.
For many if not most games that is what you actually want. And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable.

The specific claim that you were responding to was that the game would become objectively easier should you add meta progression.

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

We are talking about crab champions which is just not built for it, so whether or not your making sweeping claims doesn't matter. There is a specific claim that I am addressing and that is about whether or not crab champions should have meta progression

No it matter as lot - i was responding to a specific claim - YOU then ignore what that original comment was talking about. So no, it does matter - that's the point.

So no, you ignored what the original comment was about. And to further that point you said "And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable." So you were talking about crab champions having meta progression that would make the game easier.

You should actually read the prior post rather than just imagining its content. Especially if you're going to tell me that I am unaware of the original context.

[Casurin]

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

The specific claim that you were responding to was that the game would become objectively easier should you add meta progression.
So no, you ignored what the original comment was about.

No it was not. So the rest of your comment is just based on a lie and irrelevant.

[MangoEagle]

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

Publicado originalmente por MangoEagle:

The specific claim that you were responding to was that the game would become objectively easier should you add meta progression.
So no, you ignored what the original comment was about.

No it was not. So the rest of your comment is just based on a lie and irrelevant.

Its Literally quoted both in their post and in your reply. "the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game." "And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable."

Not sure how you can say that's not the case. The location as to where the quotes were grabbed is below. This was also in my prior post. Please actually read what I'm posting lol.
A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

Publicado originalmente por Casurin:

I don't think there is - but also i never checked it cause it just never seemed to do anything.

Publicado originalmente por Limdood:

If your weapons....or anything, really, got better as your account rose, it would just mean that as you played more, the game would become objectively easier, which seems a terrible way to design a game.

You ... you really dont want to make such sweeping wrong claims.
For many if not most games that is what you actually want. And even here it would be fine as that would be one way to making chaos really playable.