Spiked chest reducing max health

[PhobosReloading]

Dropped from over 500k down to 243k opening 2 spiked chest. No affects activated that should reduce max health.

[Rerstuf]

That's what they do now, they remove max health rather than health, but the UI really poorly explain this in game.
From what the update log said, it's 25% of your max health to unlock ALL spiked chests on an island.

[PhobosReloading]

Probably should display that better. Shot us to lobby after. Just going to black mark that selection for crew.

[Rerstuf]

Fix to my previous statement: It's 25% max health per chest.
Turns out the update log meant to say that theorically you can open as many chest as you want, since once you're at 1 max HP, you can't go lower, which the previous version (40% of your actual health) only limited to 2 chests per islands.

[Dopey Shepard]

Yeah, do NOT open any spiked chests after looping. They completely destroy your maxHP and are just NOT worth it later on when you have a lot of epics/legendaries

This change from "current HP" was not good and I hope the dev reverts back to the old one even if it was somewhat cheap to be opening 2 spiked chests and then regenerating the HP back

[Limdood]

I disagree, I'm fully on board with this change. Sometimes you can afford to tank your max hp and you can go all in on spiked. Sometimes you can't and, well, just like before, you can choose NOT to open them.

[Dopey Shepard]

Originally posted by Limdood:

I disagree, I'm fully on board with this change. Sometimes you can afford to tank your max hp and you can go all in on spiked. Sometimes you can't and, well, just like before, you can choose NOT to open them.

You DO realize that these spiked chests WILL be taking up your Island slot, which, you most likely want to be something else as you don't want to be opening them up in many cases mid/late game. Killing that much maxHP off for just 1 epic when you already have 20 of them is absurd. I still need my maxHP to kill Diamond Rank bosses and I can't do it by spamming spiked chests.

Neither this nor previous system with taking current HP is perfect, because previous system doesn't accomodate for there being more than 3 chests which you can totally easily get under the right circumstances and with max hp you could only do 3 max iirc

this system doesn't accomodate for having lots of maxHP that you are saving up for tough boss fights

[Limdood]

I have even more hours in the game than you do, I absolutely realize the repurcussions of them (which isn't an "I know more than you do" but it IS a "kind of intentionally insulting for you to assume I DON'T know the ramifications of my own opinion"). relic chests when you're full on relics, or anvil chests when all you have enhanceable is spark ability also take up "island slots." It's the name of the game.

I use spiked chests MORE now - on TN - than I did when they dealt 33% of health as damage, let alone 40%. If I go into an island at 45% health, I can't afford to pick a spiked chest under the old system...I might get hit and not be eligible to open it, but with it reducing max health, I always know what I'm getting into BEFORE I pick it.

[Dopey Shepard]

First of all, let's just agree to disagree

Secondly, why would hours spent in the game even matter in this case? You can get pretty good, what, 50-100 hours in, and have your opinions on the matter just the same.

I never meant to insult you or your expertise. I've known you for a long time. I should know better. You probably misinterpreted what I was trying to say or how I said it. I apologize if my reply meant any harm.

Also, the game is always changing, with each major. One major you play this way, the other one you are doing this. I was using Spiked Chests a lot before myself in previous major updates but not anymore. At least, not after looping

Also, I've grown on playing on TUC mode more than TNM now since TNM was basically made easier over time in beta branch (250 starting hp instead of 200 kind of thing)

I know for a fact I'm not picking a 2x spiked chest island on TUC on a loop, not a chance. Whether I have 2k hp or 5k, don't want to reduce any of my maxHP because I know for a fact, those Diamond Bosses can totally own me

Also, don't forget that on TUC mode you have much higher chance of getting higher grade drops than TNM so getting spiked islands is even less incentivized

That being said, wouldn't want to reduce maxHP that much on TNM either. Losing that much, how many islands of Fortitude am I gonna be dropping just for the sake of 2 rares

I feel like there needs to be a certain balance between difficulties maybe later on in 1.0 release so that Spiked chests don't hurt you as much on TUC or not necessarily reduce maxHP that much on other difficulties

Also, it may not always be there, but if you were to have armor, at least 2 plates, I'd very much rather take 2 spiked chests from former major reducing my current hp than take maxHP reduction

Noise made picking up 2x Spikeds a lot more affordable now that you don't need to have that much HP to pick them up, and you can pick as many as you want with maxHP reduction. On one hand, it's a good change, on the other hand, maybe not so much. Armor can only protect me so much. I know I'm going down against those damn King Skull Bosses (harder than ants imo) if I have low maxHP but maxxed out armor on TUC

[nununu]

Consider taking Bananas along with max health growth perks now. I like the spike chest change means I can open as many as I want.

At the end of the day, taking *any* portal is a choice.

[Rerstuf]

Several more runs later, I've noticed Spiked Chests are absurdly expensive due to the limited ways to get max HP now, with 3 guaranteed max HP removed and replaced by a single perk.
Even going on Health islands don't guarantee a perk that increases max HP. (and it seems getting armor is even rarer now)

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Limdood:

I have even more hours in the game than you do, I absolutely realize the repurcussions of them (which isn't an "I know more than you do" but it IS a "kind of intentionally insulting for you to assume I DON'T know the ramifications of my own opinion").

So you start your comment by detailing why you are insulting others?
really?

Originally posted by Limdood:

I use spiked chests MORE now - on TN - than I did when they dealt 33% of health as damage, let alone 40%. If I go into an island at 45% health, I can't afford to pick a spiked chest under the old system...I might get hit and not be eligible to open it, but with it reducing max health, I always know what I'm getting into BEFORE I pick it.

Then you are just rather bad at maths it seems.

[METAL MUDA]

Small tip, spike chests (or loot totems in that matter) does not reduce base max health (BMH) from extrinsic BMH additive items (i.e. mango).

Practical use would be dropping your mangoes before picking spiked chest and only your original BMH would be reduced. Downside obviously would be losing the current health from dropped mangoes (Haven't test whether not dropping mangoes actually affects the final result).

Personally, would pick spike chest if I have mangoes on possession and no significant other intrinsic BMH additive items (pretty sure Fortitude is one of them in the current patch, have not tested). I probably do not recommend picking spike chests if there is any greed BMH items in possesion, unless until final results are known and tested.

*p.s.: Dropping mangoes and picking up also good way to proc Gold Coating healing for anyone not yet aware.

[METAL MUDA]

Did another test relating to Loot Totem and interaction with BMH (Base Max Health) reduction. I used loot totem with mangoes equipped and found interesting result.

tl;dr DROP MANGOES IF YOU INTEND TO USE LOOT TOTEMS / SPIKE CHESTS. Or, drop anything that would result in lower BMH.

Assume original BMH 250 and 3 mangoes amount to 750. Brief test results are as such:

1. BMH result of using Loot Totem w/o equipping 3 mangoes: 250 - (250*.08) = 230
   
2. BMH result of using Loot Totem with 3 mangoes equipped: 1000 - (1000*.08) = 920
   
3. BMH equipping 3 mangoes after result number 1: 230+750 = 980
   
4. BMH dropping 3 mangoes from result number 2: 920-750 = 170

With that formula you should get final BMH number of 750 and 875, with and without equipping mangoes upon opening a Spiked Chest. Dropping mangoes that resulting in zero or less BMH would result in 1 total BMH. You cannot open Spiked Chests with 1 Max Health.

[Dopey Shepard]

Uhh your numbers are totally incorrect

Mango = 200 max hp (without Bananas)

250+ 3 mangoes = 850 hp, NOT 750, or 1000 for that matter. Both of your examples are wrong

However, you are right in that you should be dropping it

Unfortunately it's easier said than done when your maxHP is either Fortitude, or Valued Customer, or some Greed Perks you can't possibly toss

Mangoes aren't even that advised imo because you either take them very early to survive elites, or just don't pick them at all with the exception of nothing else being better from the chest. Mangoes might only beat valued customer if you aren't running economy stuff at all and only grab epic perks

[METAL MUDA]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

Mango = 200 max hp (without Bananas)

You made me rechecked this anak setan. Mangoes are 250. Got the screenshot. I tested on Normal if that made any difference.

I just tested the formula. Use at anyone own perusal.

*edit: Did a check, Mangoes also gives 250 max health on True Nightmare smh