Remove "Slippery Slope"

[Shokyo]

What a dogsh!t greed item to get, you lose hp upon going to an island for crystal, as if there isn't a billion different ways to gain crystals, all this greed item has a use for is forcing the player to get more healing items for such a useless perk, you already have ways to decrease the cost of items or increase how much crystals you get so whats the point of this useless perk?? Re-work it or remove it bro.

[Limdood]

It could stand to be a bit higher. Right now it seems like it's maybe 2-2.5x the value of paycheck, which is a pretty slim value compared to other greed -> blue perk comparisons. However, the other crystal-based greed perks are an even LESSER value, boosting crystal gain by 75% in return for increased enemy count (negligible drawback, and sometimes a benefit) or less loot rewards in chests (pretty serious drawback, I'd take nonlethal damage every island over that). 75% crystal gain is less than 2 bonus crystals and only 1.5x crystal combo (at 5x combo...and less than ONE crystal combo at 8x combo).

Considering a paycheck is good for 1 blue item roughly every biome (every 6 islands, with shops not counted), that makes slippery slope worth more than 2 blue items every biome, which isn't bad. It does feel like it should be stronger, given the limited opportunity to spend crystals (as opposed to random "freebie" perks like from driller), but it's still something I generally CHOOSE to pick up from greed chests about 90% of the time.

Basically, I disagree that it should be removed. I disagree that it's bad. I think it needs a minor buff, maybe worth another ~1 blue item per biome or maybe cut the health loss down by about 30%.


But the state of LOTS of perks/mods are in rough shape as major content patches are coming out and the relative value of items keeps changing in response. Heck, I'd take slippery slope over about half of the legendary items in the game. Most of the legendary ability mods and shot proc mods are near worthless, and gold totems almost never get touched in my games unless I mistake them for a fuse totem and hit them accidentally.

[Shokyo]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Limdood:

It could stand to be a bit higher. Right now it seems like it's maybe 2-2.5x the value of paycheck, which is a pretty slim value compared to other greed -> blue perk comparisons. However, the other crystal-based greed perks are an even LESSER value, boosting crystal gain by 75% in return for increased enemy count (negligible drawback, and sometimes a benefit) or less loot rewards in chests (pretty serious drawback, I'd take nonlethal damage every island over that). 75% crystal gain is less than 2 bonus crystals and only 1.5x crystal combo (at 5x combo...and less than ONE crystal combo at 8x combo).

Considering a paycheck is good for 1 blue item roughly every biome (every 6 islands, with shops not counted), that makes slippery slope worth more than 2 blue items every biome, which isn't bad. It does feel like it should be stronger, given the limited opportunity to spend crystals (as opposed to random "freebie" perks like from driller), but it's still something I generally CHOOSE to pick up from greed chests about 90% of the time.

Basically, I disagree that it should be removed. I disagree that it's bad. I think it needs a minor buff, maybe worth another ~1 blue item per biome or maybe cut the health loss down by about 30%.


But the state of LOTS of perks/mods are in rough shape as major content patches are coming out and the relative value of items keeps changing in response. Heck, I'd take slippery slope over about half of the legendary items in the game. Most of the legendary ability mods and shot proc mods are near worthless, and gold totems almost never get touched in my games unless I mistake them for a fuse totem and hit them accidentally.

Imo, even if the other perks are weaker, they don't really force a certain build, I don't really go for healing items as I mostly focus on going pure dps, (if their dead, they can't hit me) I was trying to go for a melee build but got completely shut down because of this perk, getting the exact perk I need to heal off melee is pretty rare when most of the other perks work off your main weapon, either that or they just have pretty low healing and need a ton of stacking just to off set that damage your taking to receive the cash.

Personally I believe Noisestorm should just re-work it, just play into the name and make it a movement item instead, buff movement like dashes and general movement speed but your crab acts like any surface is on ice, the idea that you take damage at the start for barely any crystals is just a waste of a greed item and just a punishment to the player, especially since XL totem exists (literally 1 XL totem on survive gives you way more crystals than this would, especially if you have any crystal buffer).

I personally hate these kind of items too, barely any reward just for a massive punishment, especially during early game if you aren't as skilled as others at dodging. (or you get sh!t on by a mf sniper crab with it's almost perfect aim or any other of the elite crabs that have bs aim)

[Limdood]

Because the bananas were removed, healing has more value than it's ever had since the last update. In any build, I'm always on the lookout for a Grim Reaper, it's the be-all, end-all of healing perks (ring of regenerating armor is the only thing that beats it out).

Ants and skulls are more accurate and fire faster than pre-patch, grubs are an unholy menace, and shotgun crabs are singlehandedly responsible for ending more of my waves islands than any other enemy. That goes triple for a melee build. Hitting an ant or some skulls without taking a hit back takes a lot of dodging and juking around waiting for patterns of shots to end so you can hit one enemy, while 20 others are shooting you.

There are also no more healing items for weapons than for non-weapons. Every healing item except health shot (which is TERRIBLE....3 health every 2 seconds. It's 25% weaker than regenerator when it's functioning in IDEAL circumstances...and regenerator isn't great to begin with) works with melee, and melee has vampire (which is also bad, but at least it doesn't have a forced cooldown).

Limited loot or Hoarder forces my build a LOT more often than slippery slope. And lets not even mention the "forced build" potential of the ring of tankiness or brawler.

It's true that slippery slope has an increased drawback since damage is easier to take and harder to heal...but 1) there are now twice as many ways to mitigate it at high hp (previously only the ring of parrying had % based healing, but now grim reaper does too), and 2) it's more valuable than it ever used to be, with scaling gem gain based on item cost...it is exactly as useful at the end of that game as the beginning. It will guarantee you at LEAST 2+ blue items from every biome you have remaining in your game (or the equivalent cost in purples or legendaries).

There are a half dozen greed perks I'd rather see removed than Slippery Slope (which, again, I'll take 90% of the time I see it).

The last point worth making is that greed items SHOULD ruin your run. That's their entire design philosophy. It's a risky significant bonus, and a risky significant drawback. Do some need tweaking? sure! But they should save your runs as often as they destroy them. A loot-trading multiplayer run shut down by Hoarder. a surprise ring of tankiness or brawler on your kick-*** weapon build. a cursed lottery undoing all your hp buildup. a High roller consistently failing to proc on each boss island. They all happen, and they all SHOULD happen. If the greed perks didn't **** you over often enough, what's the point of their unique mechanics? If they didn't ruin some of your runs, then just reshade them as legendaries.

[Casurin]

Greed items in general are rather undervelming. When you lose health every island but barely get any crystals for that?
The greed-totems are basically a total no-go as there is a big c hance of them being detrimental and the "benefit" being just on par with a blue item.

They really need a serious rework.
Slippery is bad but nothing in comparison to how bad Bribe is in multiplayer.

[Shokyo]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Casurin:

Greed items in general are rather undervelming. When you lose health every island but barely get any crystals for that?
The greed-totems are basically a total no-go as there is a big c hance of them being detrimental and the "benefit" being just on par with a blue item.

They really need a serious rework.
Slippery is bad but nothing in comparison to how bad Bribe is in multiplayer.

Never tried bribe in multiplayer as I don't have any friends interested in this game, and personally ever seen the item, but yeah I mostly agree with you, the only really good ones imo is glass cannon and anything that increases your damage or increase enemy spawn (if you got a good build)

[Rerstuf]

My grips is that health/crystal greed perks are really weak for their tradeoff, and more enemies/enemy health really just make the game more annoying than anything.

Max Health greed -> They're never worth it, safer sources of MH are better in every aspects: Greed MH are a massive gamble to even get, permanently steal a perk slot, aren't affected by boost perks, and more importantly THEY DON'T HEAL YOU. Add the downside they give you and there's no reason to ever want them.

Crystal Gain greed -> They're barely above regular CG perks normally, hardly make a difference even when stacked, but the downsides outright make them not worth it.

We run into the problem that the only real greed perks being worth it are damage bonuses, but because the greed pool is filled with useless junk, it's extra risk that makes taking the gamble in the first place not worth it.
A solution would be to either buff the greed MH/CG bonuses an absurd amount, or mix them and turn them into hybrids (multiple bonuses for a downside similar to "Big Bones").

More enemies -> You'd think having more enemies makes the game harder but not that much, there's little difference in how you play whether you're fighting 1, 10 or 100 enemies, eventually there so much stuff on your screen it doesn't make a difference what is causing it. In fact I'm usually looking for this one because it's the best source of crystals in the game. The problem is that all those enemies just make the fight last longer and longer to the point with a few too many of them, it takes 30 minutes to end an island.

More health for enemies -> Similar to above, there's little difference in how you'll treat enemies, and it just makes fight last much longer, in fact it's even worse than More Enemies on that matter.

A simple solution to the time problem (and also nerf the benefit of More Enemies a bit) would be that, if the population/health get too high, it instead starts spawning fewer but stronger enemies instead. (it'd also fix the problem of too many enemies sometime causing some to not spawn and softlocking the game)


Also the selection hitbox needs to be fixed, I want to be able to finish a run with 255 Big Bones.

[Shokyo]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rerstuf:

My grips is that health/crystal greed perks are really weak for their tradeoff, and more enemies/enemy health really just make the game more annoying than anything.

Max Health greed -> They're never worth it, safer sources of MH are better in every aspects: Greed MH are a massive gamble to even get, permanently steal a perk slot, aren't affected by boost perks, and more importantly THEY DON'T HEAL YOU. Add the downside they give you and there's no reason to ever want them.

Crystal Gain greed -> They're barely above regular CG perks normally, hardly make a difference even when stacked, but the downsides outright make them not worth it.

We run into the problem that the only real greed perks being worth it are damage bonuses, but because the greed pool is filled with useless junk, it's extra risk that makes taking the gamble in the first place not worth it.
A solution would be to either buff the greed MH/CG bonuses an absurd amount, or mix them and turn them into hybrids (multiple bonuses for a downside similar to "Big Bones").

More enemies -> You'd think having more enemies makes the game harder but not that much, there's little difference in how you play whether you're fighting 1, 10 or 100 enemies, eventually there so much stuff on your screen it doesn't make a difference what is causing it. In fact I'm usually looking for this one because it's the best source of crystals in the game. The problem is that all those enemies just make the fight last longer and longer to the point with a few too many of them, it takes 30 minutes to end an island.

More health for enemies -> Similar to above, there's little difference in how you'll treat enemies, and it just makes fight last much longer, in fact it's even worse than More Enemies on that matter.

A simple solution to the time problem (and also nerf the benefit of More Enemies a bit) would be that, if the population/health get too high, it instead starts spawning fewer but stronger enemies instead. (it'd also fix the problem of too many enemies sometime causing some to not spawn and softlocking the game)


Also the selection hitbox needs to be fixed, I want to be able to finish a run with 255 Big Bones.

So true, the green perks just feel so weak, they are meant to be the biggest risk and reward items out there and yet they don't feel like that, any time I see a greed totem I wanna use it but after this encounter and all the other ones, it's simply just better to get them from the greed chest or from the shop, at least you can pass them up if you do see one.