Flawless Achievement: Armor doesn't save you

[Meat Popsicle]

Title. Took 2-3 armor hits (damn shotgun crabs), no health lost, still didn't get the achievement.

Figured I'd post this here so you don't get the heartbreak that I just did.

Maybe Dev can re-word the achievement to "Don't get hit". That might help a bit of confusion (and sadness).

[SophisticatedChimp]

Getting hit, doesn't really sound "Flawless" to me though.

[DexDearborn]

Yeah they should change it to reflect that you can't get hit or you lose out the achievement. Should be more clear

[Shiroe (cortana)]

i mean its pretty clear...
no hits means no hits, even with armor..
Thats why taking armor on flawless is 100% useless bcoz it gets harder to track if you actually took a hit or not.

[Dumpy93]

Originally posted by Shiroe (Cortana):

i mean its pretty clear...
no hits means no hits, even with armor..
Thats why taking armor on flawless is 100% useless bcoz it gets harder to track if you actually took a hit or not.

The actual skin challenge states "take no damage." So it's not clear at all, considering you aren't taking any damage when you have armor.

[Kahrbon]

Losing max health from picking up a greed skill also counts. (I got the 100k crystals but lose all but max 1hp) and it didnt count that.)

[Eudicots]

For me I thought it was obvious that taking a hit counts as taking damage. I mean armor total is decreased when you take a hit, so you took damage. Maybe there is a translation issue for non English speakers or for those that have the game in another language.

[Rick122]

Originally posted by DexDearborn:

Yeah they should change it to reflect that you can't get hit or you lose out the achievement. Should be more clear

Armor damage is still damage. I think it's clear enough as it is.

[Run dem Weh]

Seems obvious that that would be the case, ever done any flawless challenge with armor and gotten hit? Cause it's the same thing there. flawless has always meant no hit. All armor does is keep combos, as it says on any armor pick ups.

And yes, obviously taking a hit when armored means you're still taking damage, it's just armor damage and not health damage in that case, for the guy that said "you're not actually taking damage", never seen anyone in any game whatsoever with any similar mechanic think like that.

Just cause you have something to protect your health, armor, a shield, overhealing, whatever a given game has, doesn't magically mean you're not taking damage, it's simply not going to your health. Unless, of course, said thing literally makes you invulnerable.

That being said, re-wording it to "not getting hit" would actually be a completely different thing. The item "Bulletproof" fully blocks an instance of damage when it triggers, meaning you, well, don't take damage from a hit. Depending on how the dev coded it, i guess, that *should* keep the flawless challenge intact, everything else should not.

Now, of course, if it WAS changed to "not getting hit", then it would make Bulletproof useless aswell, assuming it works in current form, which it should.

[ATH-2-M31]

Agree with the comment above,
"not taking dmg" don't specify damage to health only.

The "bulletproof" perk helps to get the achievement in the current state of the game.

[WozZz]

i had a run where i got hit i think i lost my combo but took no dmg, had to play till the end to make sure, and dint get achi, its very unclaer sometimes if u took a hit, achi should say dont get hit, taking dmg is a different thing

[Run dem Weh]

Originally posted by WozZz:

i had a run where i got hit i think i lost my combo but took no dmg, had to play till the end to make sure, and dint get achi, its very unclaer sometimes if u took a hit, achi should say dont get hit, taking dmg is a different thing

Yes... that is precisely what has already been pointed out and you literally just reiterated, they're two different things, and you're supposed to not take damage, period.

It really isn't rocket science, don't take damage of *any* kind, you *can* technically get hit and still go flawless *if* you have Bulletproof and *if* it triggers. Taking damage to your armor is still damage.

You're asking to make it harder than it currently is, because if you can't even get hit whatsoever, then even Bulletproof couldn't save you.

If you lost your combo, then you definitely took damage, because it doesn't just magically disappear. Can be hard to tell sometimes indeed as you yourself said, but that doesn't make it any less of an accurate achievement description.

[Dixthekobold]

I have never played a game where your shield taking hits counts against being flawless. It counts against being hitless but not flawless. Flawless is taking no health damage in every game that I've ever played, getting shield over top of it just makes it easier to stick to flawless.

That's where the error is occurring, they should have stated "Hitless" for taking no hits at all, not flawless cause you can still be flawless with a shield to block the actual damage but it doesn't mean you went hitless.

[Run dem Weh]

It's getting tiring explaining this, but no, it's fine the way it is, and if it said hitless it would actually be inaccurate, unlike right now. Once again, there's ways to prevent you from taking damage from a hit, meaning you can take a hit and still go flawless, if it were to be changed to hitless, it would make it even harder.

There is no error, just people misunderstanding and not taking game mechanics into consideration.

Just ignore the name of the achievement being "Flawless", forget about that part, just read the actual achievement description, which states, and i quote "Get a win on Normal difficulty without taking any damage", it says it right there, take no damage, not don't get hit, it's take no damage, very self explanatory.

If you get hit by something, you typically take damage, regardless of whether it's health, shield, armor, doesn't matter, it's still you taking damage, the only case where this isn't true is with damage prevention, i.e bulletproof procing, where you can still take a hit but not take damage cause it would essentially do 0.

[ProfessorLeskinen]

If there's a 50/50 split in a thread on whether or not the wording is clear enough, that's a sign that the wording could use some work. Nobody should have to break out their analysis cap to figure out the details of a one sentence achievement blurb.

I'd go with something like "Get a win on Normal difficulty without taking damage to health or armor" in its current state. Or better yet, lean all in on the point of the achievement and make it actually Flawless, i.e. win without getting hit.

[Dopey Shepard]

This might need to be overlooked for sure

Later on after looping you have so many enemies that you take dmg whether you like it or not

If you have lots of MaxHp a single armor point can withstand very big amounts of damage before breaking

Epic Perk for Flawlessly clearing islands right now is 25% compared to Double Vision at 15%

Maybe a "Flawless" run might be considered one where you took less than 1 full armor point of damage on an island but even then it might be complicated to make it work flawlessly (no pun), because you can have like 10% of your Armor Plate left and 1 big hit is just gonna reduce that to 0, moving you down 1 Armor Plate. That hit could be so powerful that it could actually reduce your Armor Plate from 100 to 0% durability in 1 hit (slug explosion for instance)

If everything above fails then the Flawless clearing islands should be buffed from 25% to higher, because right now the incentive to pick it up is very slim compared to Double Vision. Later on, like I said, you will be taking dmg, either from Fire Domes left on the ground by some enemies, or some Elite Pumpkin spraying his fire all over the arena