Gemino dead after one boss?

[BlackDragon]

So, this is REALLY pissing me off. Honestly, the whole thing about Gemino's quest triggering the moment you poke your nose into the Olive Trees map, even if you never lay eyes on him, is just a friggin' RIDICULOUS. I glance through the door to that area in the early minutes of the game, saw all the snow and decided to come back later. When I finally got around to exploring it, I found a tree-man and had NO IDEA what he was all about until I looked at a wiki. Apparently, I missed an entire questline somehow!

But here's the real kicker... according to what I've read, Gemino is supposed to lose an arm if you beat a boss after 'starting his quest', and only die altogether if you beat TWO. Now, I'm not clear on whether Our Lady of the Charred Visage counts against that number, and you HAVE to beat her to actually do his quest, so I might've been screwed anyway, but... I SWEAR, I've only beaten the ONE BOSS, Ten Piedad in Mercy Dreams. I also ran into some kind of miniboss while moving through Mountains of the Endless Dusk, but I didn't actually BEAT her, and after getting killed by her once she disappeared.

So... what? Is the quest bugged so that he now kicks it even MORE unreasonably quickly? Or does merely LOOKING at a boss count against you?

[[Pvt] Đ₳₦₵ɆⱤ]

https://blasphemous.fandom.com/wiki/Gemino

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by Đ₳₦₵ɆⱤ:

https://blasphemous.fandom.com/wiki/Gemino

Uhh... yes, that is the wiki-entry I found, which told me what I'd missed and made me wonder just HOW it had happened, considering that it clearly states that TWO bosses must be defeated before Gemino turns to wood. By all rights, he should've just had a wooden arm by the time I reached him. So, I'm not sure what your point is exactly - perhaps you'd care to try and, I dunno, actually USE WORDS?

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

yeah it is annoying how easy it is to make Gemino die, but that's kind of the game's point to be as bleak and punishing as possible.
basically the moment you see him, the next boss MUST be lady of the charred visage or he's toast.
i know its frustrating and annoying but that's kinda what the game wants you to feel when you're dealing with such a melevolent omnipresent force like the Miracle.

don't feel bad though, you didn't lose much at all. you can still give the oil to his dead body to get the frozen olive bead, and when you find the relic that lets you survive falling in bottomless pits you will be able to unlock the small reward from the cave you would otherwise open by helping him properly

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by Jolly Jew:

yeah it is annoying how easy it is to make Gemino die, but that's kind of the game's point to be as bleak and punishing as possible.
basically the moment you see him, the next boss MUST be lady of the charred visage or he's toast.
i know its frustrating and annoying but that's kinda what the game wants you to feel when you're dealing with such a melevolent omnipresent force like the Miracle.

don't feel bad though, you didn't lose much at all. you can still give the oil to his dead body to get the frozen olive bead, and when you find the relic that lets you survive falling in bottomless pits you will be able to unlock the small reward from the cave you would otherwise open by helping him properly

Wait, so... are you saying the wiki's just flat-out wrong? All that stuff about his arm turning to wood as an intermediary warning-sign is just bunk? One wrong step, and it's fission mailed? Geez. Even worse, then - and somebody should really fix that article.

[Roshambo]

His quest doesn't really matter as you can get his stuff from an alternate path once he dies and redo it proper on NG+

[animalec]

Calm your passion, penitent one!
All sinners in sorrow are allowed to follow the false paths when carrying their penitence for the first time. The miracle shows it's full holiness only when Penitent one earns Holy NG+ anointment and raise up once again to become bearer of guilty blade. Only then he learns all prayers and can witness miraculous embodiment of sacred DLCs.


Sorrowful be your heart.

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

Originally posted by BlackDragon:

Originally posted by Jolly Jew:

yeah it is annoying how easy it is to make Gemino die, but that's kind of the game's point to be as bleak and punishing as possible.
basically the moment you see him, the next boss MUST be lady of the charred visage or he's toast.
i know its frustrating and annoying but that's kinda what the game wants you to feel when you're dealing with such a melevolent omnipresent force like the Miracle.

don't feel bad though, you didn't lose much at all. you can still give the oil to his dead body to get the frozen olive bead, and when you find the relic that lets you survive falling in bottomless pits you will be able to unlock the small reward from the cave you would otherwise open by helping him properly

Wait, so... are you saying the wiki's just flat-out wrong? All that stuff about his arm turning to wood as an intermediary warning-sign is just bunk? One wrong step, and it's fission mailed? Geez. Even worse, then - and somebody should really fix that article.

Wiki isn't wrong. after beating 1 boss - a part of him turns into wood. after beating 2 bosses he is now 100% wood and basically dead.
so basically the only boss you are safe to beat after seeing gemino is lady of the charred visage.
again, don't be distressed that you "failed" that quest, it was intended to be a common pitfall for players to add to the game's oppressive atmosphere. the rewards weren't that good anyway, and there is an alternate way to get it

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by drae_perin:

What you are describing is the worst possible outcome.

This happens if Gemino is ignored, and a boss is defeated. This is why many wikis and guides warn you that the quest begins even if you enter the screen, because entering Gemino's area and not speaking to Gemino, is ignoring Gemino. Whether they know what can happen, or if they properly laid it out for you is up to them.

Gemino, ignored, will skip over his partially transformed state, having lost what little hope he had left, and enter the "failure" state if the player defeats any of the three bosses that guard the "holy wounds" ( including Our Lady of the Charred Visage ). This is how it has worked for almost 3 years.

Thankfully the possibility of missing out on the quest entirely was patched way back then as well. Gemino used to keep his Thimble when being ignored ( the "fourth" and worst outcome ), now he simply skips to the end of the quest, the Penitent One is free to pick up the Thimble, retrieve the Oil, give the Oil to Tree-Gemino, and receive the Dried Flowers in return, the same as if they had spoken to Gemino and defeated Ten Piedad and Tres Angustias before giving him the Oil.

So, basically, this entire thread is wrong, all of this has been known for years, the quest is not "locked out", or whatever else. Check more than one Wiki, Guide, or Discussion.

Just keep playing and you will still be able to get all the stuff. You're not going to do everything perfect when you go in blind. Why would you expect to?

AHA! Finally someone with an actual explanation! Though I could do without that snide BS at the end - can you actually, honestly, reasonably expect someone to look at a winter wonderland and immediately go "Huh, I better check a guide or a wiki to make sure that entering this area hasn't randomly started a quest that I will fail if I turn back now."? I did not IGNORE him, I literally never SAW him, and thus had no idea that there was anything going on that I needed to worry about.

Hence, what disturbed me was purely the fact that all the articles I read once I DID proceed past that point and found the tree-man and the golden thimble suggested that, with only one boss beaten, he SHOULD still have been alive. I had no idea about that caveat concerning what happened if he was 'ignored'...

Looking at the wiki now, it DOES say so, right at the bottom. Hrm. Either someone went and fixed it up after I made this thread, or I just missed that one line. >_>

(Also, the quest is ABSOLUTELY locked out. You can still get the REWARD, by jumping through some additional hoops, but the actual QUEST is just flat-out gone.)

[Ridley]

It's Fromsoftware style - one wrong move and NPC is dead. Good luck keeping him alive next cycle...

[BlackDragon]

See, that's kind of a matter of perspective... I have, in fact 'finished the quest' already, but those air-quotes are there for a reason. It is PAINFULLY obvious, when you do it like that, that this is a belated patch-up job by the devs. You find an inexplicable golden thimble on the ground next to a spooky tree, randomly decide to fill it with burning oil at a nearby convent and then return it, at which point you receive a random voiceline that makes zero sense out of context. Then, if you happen to return there later, you'll find a frozen olive nearby. And then, if you jump into a nearby hole with the right gear later, you'll find some other stuff. Yaaaay. Quest complete.

My point, as I believe I have tried to make before, is that you ABSOLUTELY get locked out of the QUEST if you make the extremely simple mistake of poking your nose inside the frozen region and then turn back well before you even see Gemino. You can still get all the REWARDS, so you aren't locked out of 100% Completion or whatnot, but the actual quest? The interactions with the character and a somewhat-logical progression in terms of objectives and rewards? That is lost.

The fact that the devs jury-rigged this method for collecting the actual rewards of the quest after the fact also suggests that even THEY recognize that it was poorly designed. Seriously, if Gemino had just been in a little room BY HIMSELF, where you'd see him as soon as you entered, nobody would be complaining. At that point, passing him by without talking to him indeed DOES constitute 'ignoring' him, and it makes sense that you might be punished for it. But even the actual FromSoftware games don't have any quests - to my knowledge - that can be failed simply by EXISTING within a GENERAL REGION and then moving on without ever interacting with or laying eyes on the quest-giver. Because that's not part of an 'atmosphere of despair' or 'harsh but fair difficulty', it's just boneheaded game-design.

[Hotel Security]

It's Fromsoftware style - one wrong move and NPC is dead. Good luck keeping him alive next cycle...

This gripe is silly anyway. Just keep going through the area and it's not a problem. OP just made the mistake of backing out.

And, in the end it doesn't matter since you can get the item he rewards anyway...all this whining about the devs and they still gave you a way to get the item even without Gemino. How is it bad design to give players a backup plan?

The fact that the devs jury-rigged this method for collecting the actual rewards of the quest after the fact also suggests that even THEY recognize that it was poorly designed.

Oh will you f***ing stop. Nothing worse than these whiny bastards who pretend they know more about game development than game developers.

Or this laughable idea that you know what they were thinking during development.

Or the idea that they "know something is bad" and didn't just fix it. You speak of game developers as though they're space aliens that don't think like normal humans. You clearly have no clue how actual adults think.

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by Hotel Security:

It's Fromsoftware style - one wrong move and NPC is dead. Good luck keeping him alive next cycle...

This gripe is silly anyway. Just keep going through the area and it's not a problem. OP just made the mistake of backing out.

And, in the end it doesn't matter since you can get the item he rewards anyway...all this whining about the devs and they still gave you a way to get the item even without Gemino. How is it bad design to give players a backup plan?

The fact that the devs jury-rigged this method for collecting the actual rewards of the quest after the fact also suggests that even THEY recognize that it was poorly designed.

Oh will you f***ing stop. Nothing worse than these whiny bastards who pretend they know more about game development than game developers.

Or this laughable idea that you know what they were thinking during development.

Or the idea that they "know something is bad" and didn't just fix it. You speak of game developers as though they're space aliens that don't think like normal humans. You clearly have no clue how actual adults think.

Indeed? I've worked in QA for 15 years. I know how developers think, and how they fix their mistakes.

Let's hear YOUR credentials, please.

[MekaDovah]

Being so enraged about technically failing one quest in one video game is not very healthy. Especially since you know at this point failure doesn't stop you from obtaining the rewards anyway, so the "failure" is meaningless.

The fact you respond with such excessive hostility to anything short of unconditional agreement kinda suggests you have a big problem with not getting exactly what you want all the time.

For your own good, you really should stop before your browbeating of everyone causes you problems.

[Hotel Security]

Indeed? I've worked in QA for 15 years. I know how developers think, and how they fix their mistakes.

Oh, and you're the only one here who works with a tech company? Sorry, just because QA finds an issue doesn't mean it's easily fixed. And just because they know there's an issue doesn't mean the other teams can fix it without it effecting other parts of the code.

And you should also know that not every issue found by QA is fixed since there's usually a long list of fixes for every programming/development team and the higher priority ones are going to take precedent. An extremely minor issue like this (if you even want to call it an issue) is going to be on the back-burner and may never find it's way to an active project. At this point, there's likely no more fixes being done at all since they're busy with the sequel.

So, "you know how developers think" but you ignore all these other cost and time factors that being in that sector should have taught you about and which every development team has to deal with.

the fact you respond with such excessive hostility

Spare me with your exaggeration on my comments. You, of all people, should be getting tired about regular schlubs ripping on the development process as though they have a clue. Why would someone who knows about the struggles of development defend this elementary s***? Unless you're just as clueless?

so anything short of unconditional agreement kinda suggests you have a big problem with not getting exactly what you want all the time.

Really? Because I'd say that describes the OP a lot better than me. Ripping on a game developer because they can't get an item via a quest and have to get it another way? That's someone flipping out about not getting what they want. And you're defending it.

Please spare me on the idea that you know me. I'm the one defending the game. I'm the one accepting that it won't be perfect. And you're not qualified for the half-assed psychology bit anyway...though it's certainly a cute tool to bring up if you're trying to troll someone. You tryin to troll me, Mek?

you really should stop before your browbeating of everyone causes you problems.

And what problems will that be? If you're suggesting this is an issue in real life it's not since I don't encounter people this unreasonable in real life and no one in real life ever makes stupid declarations about game development like this.