Blasphemous

Blasphemous

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Magmarock 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 8:50
Is this game anti christian?
I've seen this topic mentioned here and there, but nothing specific. Not attacking anyone for their beliefs or anything, just want to know if there's a message behind it or anything.
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Jinkros ✓ 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 8:56 
I dont think so
Repugnant Human 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 9:17 
No, it's a tribute to fine/traditional art. Mostly Spanish one. I think devs even adore their local religious customs as a source of inspiration
最后由 Repugnant Human 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 9:43
vitez_vaddiszno 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 9:50 
The flagellant elements of medieval Christianity are emphasized, and themes like sin, penitence, and suffering are central. Some elements are exaggerated and played for horror, which can be justified, because this is a video game and you need enemies to fight.

On the other hand, self-sacrifice, altruism and genuine goodwill also plays a big part. Just think of the Kissers of Wounds, Viridiana, Soledad and even the Penitent One himself, who are all saintly figures helping out even a stranger, at their own detriment.

Anti-Christian? I wouldn't say that. I think the game tries to put Christian art and its religious concepts in the spotlight, with all its virtues and vices. The setting is a dystopia because it's a "Christianity gone wrong" world. The game's message is definitely not "Real life Christianity is just as bad as this world" - instead, it says that you should be positive and focus on the uplifting things, because life gets very depressing otherwise.
最后由 vitez_vaddiszno 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 9:51
Magmarock 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 10:34 
引用自 vitez_vaddiszno
The flagellant elements of medieval Christianity are emphasized, and themes like sin, penitence, and suffering are central. Some elements are exaggerated and played for horror, which can be justified, because this is a video game and you need enemies to fight.

On the other hand, self-sacrifice, altruism and genuine goodwill also plays a big part. Just think of the Kissers of Wounds, Viridiana, Soledad and even the Penitent One himself, who are all saintly figures helping out even a stranger, at their own detriment.

Anti-Christian? I wouldn't say that. I think the game tries to put Christian art and its religious concepts in the spotlight, with all its virtues and vices. The setting is a dystopia because it's a "Christianity gone wrong" world. The game's message is definitely not "Real life Christianity is just as bad as this world" - instead, it says that you should be positive and focus on the uplifting things, because life gets very depressing otherwise.

That's a very interesting take. I guess the part that stuck out to me the most is when the boss pulls the head off of the pieta and smashes it. It seemed almost like a protest.
vitez_vaddiszno 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 10:40 
引用自 Magmarock
That's a very interesting take. I guess the part that stuck out to me the most is when the boss pulls the head off of the pieta and smashes it. It seemed almost like a protest.
Yes, but Ten Piedad was a villain, right? So if anything, iconoclasts are portrayed as bad guys. And you can read Ten Piedad's backstory on the Thorned Symbol rosary bead, which reveals that he was originally a human but cursed to become a huge beast, not in control of his actions. That kind of confirms that his act of destroying the statue was not borne from intentional malice.
RabidBurp 2020 年 9 月 6 日 下午 10:40 
Melquíades The Exhumed Archbishop and his area feel more like a stab at Catholicism. Especially considering the people are worshiping the Archbishop's corpse more than the God he stood for.
Dorfsowjet 2020 年 9 月 8 日 上午 8:33 
引用自 Magmarock
Is this game anti christian?

No.
Pneuma 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 12:57 
If anything it takes the stereotypical view of Catholicism and magnifies it x10, the idea of "who is the greatest saint is also the greatest renunciant." philosophy. If you look throughout Catholic history and especially if you have attended any Orthodox sermon you will see the HUGE emphesis on saints, and especially how much they suffered, and the "miracles" they performed, more so than the God, or performing acts of love, kindness, charity as God actually taught.

Anyhow its does an incredible job at embellishing the, empty, hollow, outwardly aspects of ritualistic religion, while the true genuine religion/spirituality is carried out by those such as, Kisser of Wounds, and Penitent one, ironically those either outcasted, nor deemed heretic are actually the true believer, same principle still applies today.

So I suppose the question is, what is Christianity to you? If its ritualistic, legalism, filled with white washed tombs, then yes this would be.
If it's about love, redemption, grace and Spirit, universal forgiveness, I would say no, in fact its PRO Christianity.
最后由 Pneuma 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 12:59
Boink 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 2:33 
引用自 Magmarock
I've seen this topic mentioned here and there, but nothing specific. Not attacking anyone for their beliefs or anything, just want to know if there's a message behind it or anything.


Whoooo, boy, have I bad news for you about history: https://www.history.com/topics/france/huguenots

If you're over 18, and mature, try out a film called "The Devils". https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066993/

Then look up Beatification ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatification ) and what happened in 1634 that caused the Pope to revoke it from local Bishops (here's the Catholic Churches' official version: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm Spoilers: it was a bit worse than that)

~

So, no: it's not 'anti-Christian'. It's definitely requires you to know a bit about history to make sense though. However, the proper ending has you Beatified and your expunging of sin 'remakes' the kingdom into a better place., so the end message is somewhat positive.
最后由 Boink 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 2:34
vitez_vaddiszno 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 2:35 
引用自 Pneuma
If anything it takes the stereotypical view of Catholicism and magnifies it x10, the idea of "who is the greatest saint is also the greatest renunciant." philosophy. If you look throughout Catholic history and especially if you have attended any Orthodox sermon you will see the HUGE emphesis on saints, and especially how much they suffered, and the "miracles" they performed, more so than the God, or performing acts of love, kindness, charity as God actually taught.

Anyhow its does an incredible job at embellishing the, empty, hollow, outwardly aspects of ritualistic religion, while the true genuine religion/spirituality is carried out by those such as, Kisser of Wounds, and Penitent one, ironically those either outcasted, nor deemed heretic are actually the true believer, same principle still applies today.

So I suppose the question is, what is Christianity to you? If its ritualistic, legalism, filled with white washed tombs, then yes this would be.
If it's about love, redemption, grace and Spirit, universal forgiveness, I would say no, in fact its PRO Christianity.
Exactly. The setting is "Christianity gone wrong", while what the Penitent One (and some others) does is "Christianity done right" (minus the part where he murders everyone with a sword).
Boink 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 2:36 
引用自 vitez_vaddiszno
(minus the part where he murders everyone with a sword).

That's arguably the most Christian part of the game...
最后由 Boink 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 2:36
Pneuma 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 4:01 
For me it's all symbolic and metaphorical, the game is using killing with the sword as an analogy for ironically enough, mercy, repentance and grace(overcoming guilt/shame). The Penitent One is essentially setting everything that is wrong, right in a slightly twisted Christ sort of way. The game would be rather boring if it was dialoguing with others, harboring and abstaining them of their guilt/shame.

I'd actually kind of love that but don't see that happening haha.

Again, as Vitez pointed out, in the end, it's about freedom from oppression/religion which is exactly what Christ fought for in His day against the legalistic system the Jewish religion has become. Liberation, freedom, redemption, broken away from establishments and man, free in the Spirit.

This is why I love this game so much, it's incredibly rare to see any game handle this topic and especially this well, and the art is just fantastic.
最后由 Pneuma 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 8 日 下午 4:04
Laxariem 2020 年 9 月 9 日 下午 1:29 
The game is pro-religion without corruption. Not anti-liturgy, or anti-clerical, either. It values the artistic side of religion, from which it got the inspiration in the first place, but doesn't value injustice that is common when the high part of a group separates from the low for whatever reasons. In the game corruption can be seen in the clerics and the lay, none is without sin. But besides corruption, there is authentic philantropy, people that live to help other suffer less.

Corruption is more common where there is no fear of the Absolute, and if thats so why the theme is a religious one? Simple: because it resonates. Corruption in purely political domains is expected because power is based on usurpation, but when corruption is manifested in churches, it hurts the trust people deposited in their leaders that where supposed to be servants of the Heavens, guides of ethics.

You could view that this game is a perpetuation of the bad-will of people that only talk trash about organized religions while ignoring their aid to the helpless this same people have never done. But is not the case. Blasphemous recognizes that sin is commited by everyone and everyone is at fault for it. Also recognizes that the sins of the leaders have more impact to the world and thus need more emphasis to condemn them.

The central theme of this game is mercy, even in a twisted way.

==========

The Penintent, as reflection of Jesus, values religion

Jesus wanted freedom for people so they could have the power to heal the world and recconect better with God, not "free from religion because religion is the root of all evils". He was against corrupted collectives that hurt the union with Heaven while not making better the union with Earth. The moment people desecrated the Second Temple of Israel, he became furious and draw them outside with a whip.

You could say he was a "fanatic", "zealout", "legalistic", and I don't care. He was not against liturgy, he was against vanity, when the heart is not in the prayer the same way the soul is not in the body. The same way the Penitent One is not against religion, hence his vote of silence; he is against injustice.

Whe don't know how was Cvstodia at first but we know that the Mother of Mothers was open for the world, not closed as we encountered in the game. The Penitend One opens that door, breaking the seal that separated both worlds... worlds that where united. He does the same thing with the remains of Tentudia, with the elevator in the Archcatedral Rooftops, and the message of this is that the way of healing is restoring the balance that was lost. At the end of the game, we know what happens. The Church, fragmented by the sin of His Holiness, was reunited. Religion was transformed and hope was the gift the Penitent One gave to others.

==========

The emphasis in the saints is because they reflect the glory of God

Nobody has seeing the High Wills or even the Miracle, thus seeing the effects of the Miracle is the best way to "see" the Miracle. The churchs of our world that acknowledge saints and have liturgy around them, in reality are aplying the same logic of "seeing" the invisible God by the effects of vissible people. Even if they are dead and their only depictions are paintings, statues and stained glass, they are more vissible that God.

Thats one point, the other one is that when people focus directly on God, God without Creation, they contemplate an infinite formless abstraction, a deific variant of their own fathers/mentors, a white sun or whatever the mind tries to visualize. This are all people's ideas of God, but none of them can be Him. Since an idea of God is not God, and by being an idea of God is not always guarantee that will fill the heart with fervor, is not that different of other ideas that people use to connect with God, like saints for example. For some, imagining the lives of people like them that had heroic lives fills them with more fervor than to imagine a bright white sun or sphere and confusing it with God.

Okay, the world of Blasphemous has a "twist" and that is: the new deity of the world, the Miracle, has its saints. The same way many believe that the saints in our world are a reflection of God's glory, in the world of Blasphemous the saints obey this rule perfectly: some are pious, others are cruel. There are saints that help you in your penance and those who want to stop it. If they are pious or cruel, it doesn't matter, they are equally blessed and cursed.

Then we have people that are not "saints" made by the Miracle, but live the way Jesus would if he was in their position. They don't have magical powers, they just have will and the help of the Penitent One. They are not blessed, nor cursed... directly. They experience the blessings or the curse of the saints that are in the area.

==========

Use your suffering as instrument to heal the world

The Penitent use lesser evils suchs as his suffering to fight greater evils such as corruption and the excessive suffering in the world, something considered anathema. For that to become a possibility, the Penitent desecrate what is considered sacred for the orthodox, hence he is an heretic as the whole Brotherhood of the Silent Sorrow.

The Penitent One uses his suffering to empower himself. Guilt materialized is his weapon, he wounds himself to gain fervor, to connect with the source of miracles. By this the message of the Penitent One is that you need to use your own suffering as a weapon to grow in power, instead of becoming a suicidal maniac.

==========

Evil is the root of corruption and corruption, the root of all disgraces

At some point in the world of Blasphemous corruption made its way to the hierarchs of the Church. It could be from the laypeople to the clerics or from the clerics to the people. Something happened before the Miracle that corrupted Cvstodia with excesive fear and superstition to the point the Church divided: the Mother of Mother for the "holy" people and the rest ot the world for the "profane".

Maybe at the begining of the Church the liturgy was not empty and channeled the fervor of all, the clerics where not vain but full of charity and the lay was not scared but full of hope. At some point the harmony was lost, superstition became the norm in both worlds while dividing them: high superstition to the clergy and low to the lay; maybe is because of this differences of superstitions that His Holiness became dissapointed and moved his throne.

At end the two fragments of the same Church reunited and the people where making procession in the Archcatedral Rooftops, a place that was "forbidden" to them.


==========

Conclusion: religions needs to heal

The Penitent One was not meant to "abolish religion", like some would love to think. That's not possible, everyone has their own religion even if is just political.

The Penitent One doesn't want to "save" Cvstodia from religion, but from the "root of all evils" that corrupts religion. He wants to heal the religion of Cvstodia so it can heal the rest of things.
最后由 Laxariem 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 9 日 下午 2:09
Pneuma 2020 年 9 月 9 日 下午 1:47 
引用自 Laxariem
The game is pro-religion without corruption. Not anti-liturgy, or anti-clerical, either. It values the artistic side of religion, from which it got the inspiration in the first place, but doesn't value injustice that is common when the high part of a group separates from the low for whatever reasons. In the game corruption can be seen in the clerics and the lay, none is without sin. But besides corruption, there is authentic philnantropy, people that live to help other suffer less.

Corruption is more common where there is no fear of the Absolute, and if thats so why the theme is a religious one? Simple: because it resonates. Corruption in purely political domains is expected because power is based on usurpation, but when corruption is manifested in churchs, it hurts the trusth people deposited in their leader that where supposed to be servants of the Heavens, guides of ethics.

==========

The Penintent, as reflection of Jesus, values religion

Jesus wanted freedom for people so they could have the power to heal the world and recconect better with God, not "free from religion because religion is the root of all evils". He was against corrupted collectives that hurt the union with Heaven while not making better the union with Earth. The moment people where desecrate the Second Temple of Israel, he became furious and draw them outside with a whip.

You could say he was a "fanatic", "zealout", "legalistic", and I don't care. He was not against liturgy, he was against vanity, when the heart is not in the prayer the same way the soul is not in the body. The same way the Penitent One is not against religion, hence his vote of silence; he is against injustice.

Whe don't know how was Cvstodia at first but we know that the Mother of Mothers was open for the world, not closed as we encountered in the game. The Penitend One opens that door, breaken the seal that separated both worlds... worlds that where united. He does the same thing with the remains of Tentudia, with the elevator in the Archcatedral Rooftops, and the message of this is that the way of healing is restoring the balance that was lost. At the end of the game, we know what happens. The Church, fragmented by the sin of His Holiness, was reunited. Religion was transformed and hope was the gift the Penitent One gave to others.

==========

The emphasis in the saints is because they reflect the glory of God

Nobody has seeing the High Wills or even the Miracle, thus seeing the effects of the Miracle is the best way to "see" the Miracle. The churchs of our world that acknowledge saints and have liturgy around them, in reality are aplying the same logic of "seeing" the invisible God by the effects of vissible people. Even if they are dead and their only depictions are paintings, statues and stained glass, they are more vissible that God.

Thats one point, the other one is that when people focus directly on God, God without Creation, they contemplate an infinite formless abstraction, a deific variant of their own fathers/mentors, a white sun or whatever the mind tries to visualize. This are all people's ideas of God, but none of them can be Him. Since an idea of God is not God, and by being an idea of God is not always guarantee that will fill the heart with fervor, is not that different of other ideas that people use to connect with God, like saints for example. For some, imagining the lives of people like them that had heroic lives fills them with more fervor than to imagine a bright white sun or sphere and confusing it with God.

Okay, the world of Blasphemous has a "twist" and that is: the new deity of the world, the Miracle, has its saints. The same way many believe that the saints in our world are a reflection of God's glory, in the world of Blasphemous the saints obey this rule perfectly: some are pious, others are cruel. There are saints that help you in your penance and those who want to stop it. If they are pious or cruel, it doesn't matter, they are equally blessed and cursed.

Then we have people that are not "saints" made by the Miracle, but live the way Jesus would if he was in their position. They don't have magical powers, they just have will and the help of the Penitent One. They are not blessed, nor cursed... directly. They experience the blessings or the curse of the saints that are in the area.

==========

Use your suffering as instrument to heal the world

The Penitent use lesser evils suchs as his suffering to fight greater evils such as corruption and the excessive suffering in the world, something considered anathema. For that to become a possibility, the Penitent desecrate wat is considered sacred for the orthodox, hence he is an heretic as the whole Brotherhood of the Silent Sorrow.

The Penitent One uses his suffering to empower himself. Guilt materialized is his weapon, he wounds himself to gain fervor, to connect with the source of miracles. By this the message of the Penitent One is that you need to use your own suffering as a weapon to grow in power, instead of becoming a suicidal maniac.

==========

Evil is the root of corruption and corruption, the root of all disgraces

At some point in the world of Blasphemous corruption made its way to the hierarchs of the Church. It could be from the laypeople to the clerics or from the clerics to the people. Something happened before the Miracle that corrupted Cvstodia with excesive fear and superstition to the point the Church divided: the Mother of Mother for the "holy" people and the rest ot the world for the "profane".

Maybe at the begining of the Church the liturgy was not empty and channeled the fervor of all, the clerics where not vain but full of charity and the lay was not scared but full of hope. At some point the harmony was lost, superstition became the norm in both worlds while dividing them: high superstition to the clergy and low to the lay; maybe is because of this differences of superstitions that His Holiness became dissapointed and moved his throne.

At end the two fragments of the same Church reunited and the people where making procession in the Archcatedral Rooftops, a place that was "forbidden" to them.


==========

Conclusion: religions needs to heal

The Penitent One was not meant to "abolish religion", like some would love to think. That's not possible, everyone has their own religion even if is just political.

The Penitent One doesn't want to "save" Cvstodia from religion, but from the "root of all evils" that corrupts religion. He wants to heal the religion of Cvstodia so it can heal the rest of things.

Wow that is really well put and thought out, I am glad I read this and you shared it!
Laxariem 2020 年 9 月 9 日 下午 2:11 
The game is so good it needed justice! Merciful be the the heart, Penintent Pneuma.
最后由 Laxariem 编辑于; 2020 年 9 月 10 日 上午 6:01
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发帖日期: 2020 年 9 月 6 日 上午 8:50
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