Is there a way to get through the locked gate on Elboreth?

[Argusismypupper]

I don't think this is really a spoiler since it comes so early in the game. When you get to Elboreth and first enter the Citadel, to the left there is a locked gate. We remember climbing over it wtih Olori and that it was always locked. Is there any way to get through this gate, that I just haven't found/tried yet? I'm on my second playthrough. On my first playthrough, I was only ever able to interact with it the first time, when I remembered climbing over it; after that I could never get anything more around it. Is it worth the time and effort to keep trying to find a way through/over/around it?

[ptor]

I don't believe it is possible, happy to be proven wrong though

[Psyringe]

I was looking for a way in every single playthrough, but never found one. It seemed odd to me that the game introduces the Council building on top of the Catkis, spins some interesting details around it, but then never does anything with it. So I thought the locked gate might be a way to eventually get there. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps it's just a story branch that was originally planned, but never implemented.

[AriiTopper]

I'm sure the Old Town (Tapi tells you of it) is behind it, and, were it included, you could go to the Council and find some badass history about Elboreth in the Steel Empire... But I suspect it got cut, because of production costs, like the Great Forge.

[ptor]

Arii78 の投稿を引用：

I'm sure the Old Town (Tapi tells you of it) is behind it, and, were it included, you could go to the Council and find some badass history about Elboreth in the Steel Empire... But I suspect it got cut, because of production costs, like the Great Forge.

I thought the old town was the citadel in general? TBH, cost or no cost, just because it could doesn't mean it should have been written. As Hemingway so eloquently put it, let the iceberg be imagined by the reader just by showing its tip

[AriiTopper]

I have to say I also thought that, but since you have that whole interaction with Tapi and you convince him to tell you where he gets his loot, it looks like it would unlock some... artefact-finding, and since it wasn't in the explorable area, I tell myself it's behind the locked gate that you can't access.
Otherwise, I'd be fine with just Aliya knowing Tapi gets stuff from Elboreth and understanding there's a bunch of history there.
It's just... tempting, because it seems almost possible. To go loot the Old Town and hopper to the council and stuff. (I'm sure there used to be a word to get hoppered from the gate to the council building)

[ptor]

Arii78 の投稿を引用：

since you have that whole interaction with Tapi and you convince him to tell you where he gets his loot, it looks like it would unlock some... artefact-finding, and since it wasn't in the explorable area, I tell myself it's behind the locked gate that you can't access.

Whereas I read that as the 99% or so area of the citadel that Aliya refuses to explore because "it's a maze in which one can easily get losr". Also, if the council was actually past the gates, and it was still in use, they'd have unlocked the gate long ago, but given what she says the first time you look at it, it doesn't feel to me either is the case, or there are other ways around that gate the she doesn't much care about

[Psyringe]

ptor の投稿を引用：

Whereas I read that as the 99% or so area of the citadel that Aliya refuses to explore because "it's a maze in which one can easily get losr".

Aliya has no problem with that "maze". Right after the line you quoted, she points out that _she_ has lived there for a long time. She simply describes the area as a maze to the player, and then says that she has enough experience to navigate it. Which she then promptly does - all the dialogue in the Catkis shows Aliya knowing the area and its people.

ptor の投稿を引用：

Also, if the council was actually past the gates, and it was still in use, they'd have unlocked the gate long ago

No one here expects that the Council would be easily accessible after the gate, or that the Elborethians would even know about such a connection. Aliya clearly states that a) no one has been in the Council for a long time, and b) kids try to get there by climbing the rock (and failing). Neither would make much sense if there was a known path to the Council behind a gate which can _easily_ be climbed over (as Aliya and Oroi used to do as kids).

The idea that I had, was more that going through the gate might eventually open a viewing angle from where you can see an eye in the walls, so that Six could hopper you up to the Council.

But all of that is rather academic since the gate can't be passed in the actual game anyway. ;)

[ptor]

You are, of course, right on all accounts. I was aware of all you say (though I might have missed some of the connections you did. Though I am pretty convinced the walls and the gate itself WERE climbed past by the children (or did I misunderstand?)

There is also the possibility the location of the council chambers has been lost (hopper-only access?), not so much because there's a whole section past the gate no one can reach (I find it hard to believe an overcrowded moon would not tear down or build some stair past a stuck gate to recover the areas)

[Psyringe]

ptor の投稿を引用：

I am pretty convinced the walls and the gate itself WERE climbed past by the children

There are two acts of climbing referenced in the dialogue:

a) When approaching the locked gate for the first time, Aliya mentions that she and Oroi used to climb over the gate as kids.

b) When talking about the Council (by looking up from the first area inside the Catkis and clicking on the interaction point that appears on the Council), Aliya describes that no one has been there for a long a time, and that kids were trying to climb the rock to reach it, but failed. One boy fell down and broke his leg.

[ptor]

Wow. I'd managed to trigger b) without ever realising the activation was on the council chambers. #ObservationSkillAPlus

Hopper access it is then

[worstcase11]

My favourite theory is, that the Council hall was always meant to be accessed by the Catkis gate with a special command. Unfortunately there is no hint in the game what that command could be.
It could also be 'user locked' for royalty or the robots to make things more difficult, even if someone used a right command by accident like Aamir did.

[ernstt]

I don't know for sure, but on HG, you can get to a simple graveyard at the lowest part, there "robot rememberances" speak to you in patois, perhaps if one chooses to ruin HG, one get back with that knowledge.

But i walked out into an invisible layer at the "windmachine", and explored the whole outside of HG, and thought inquisitive as i am, "lets try the backside of the windmachine".

There Aliya left the invisible layer, and got stuck on a miserable small patch of sand at the back of the "windmachine", so can't check my hunches.

There also seams to be a way to get Six help you, but he is verry reluctant, although he now opens teh Catkis gate, and helps Aliya with translating of debris finds.

He started at the backside of the bar at gods feet about the patois, but is stupidly let Aliya say she of course knows patois, so the conversation stopped.

My hunch is that the Robots all know patois, and can help, but as long as Myari has them gagged with the control word, they are very carefull, so be kind to the robot, it's a quite helpfull guy, and he does *not* report everything to Myari...

So the Robots, kan help you Hopper around, is my hunch, the fact he always apears out of knoware if you go awol, confirms the ability of robots to hopper along...

[Psyringe]

ernstt の投稿を引用：

I don't know for sure, but on HG, you can get to a simple graveyard at the lowest part, there "robot rememberances" speak to you in patois, perhaps if one chooses to ruin HG, one get back with that knowledge.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't remember any place in the game whose name would match the initials "HG". The only "graveyard in a lower area" that I recall, is in Heaven's Vault. But there are no robots there, just the usual recorded personalities of _people_. They also don't speak patois, they speak Ancient. Patois is an Elborethian dialect that has preserved some words from Ancient, but it's not the same language.

ernstt の投稿を引用：

There also seams to be a way to get Six help you, but he is verry reluctant, although he now opens teh Catkis gate, and helps Aliya with translating of debris finds.

Under which circumstances would Six open the Catkis gate? He explicitly says that it _can't_ be opened because there's literally only rock behind it. And he doesn't know the word(s) to control it, Aliya has to tell it to him.

ernstt の投稿を引用：

My hunch is that the Robots all know patois, and can help, but as long as Myari has them gagged with the control word, they are very carefull, so be kind to the robot, it's a quite helpfull guy, and he does *not* report everything to Myari...

No. It is impossible for robots to know patois because patois is an Elborethian dialect, and robots are completely gone from Elboreth for a very long time.

Robots _may_ have knowledge of _Ancient_, but it may be limited to just a few words, and in any case it will be hidden in a sublayer that the robot usually has no access to. Since robot personalities have been "overwritten" with human neuropatterns in the Whispering Palace for centuries (if not millennia), any knowledge of Ancient is probably part of an older personality that this robot harbored, or part of an even older specific command set. Robots can have "flashbacks" that reveal knowledge of these older personalities (Six has several), but they can't properly recover it unless you activate the entire old personality (which is possible with Six, but involves a process that hasn't been used for centuries).

Myari has nothing to do with it - she has a vague hunch that Six is "special", and she knows a few control words, but she has no idea what robots actually are or how they get their personalities, nor would she be able to control them to the extent you imagine. She probably isn't even the primary user of most robots, as she has masters above her.

ernstt の投稿を引用：

So the Robots, kan help you Hopper around, is my hunch, the fact he always apears out of knoware if you go awol, confirms the ability of robots to hopper along...

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. ;) Yes, robots can use hoppers. As Six explains, robots carry a source. So if they see an eye, they can use it - which Six does at the Emperors' Graveyard moon and at the Domed Market moon. Obviously, if there is no eye, he can't hopper (as reflected on the Hideout moon, and at the Serpent's Eye). So?

[Argusismypupper]

Just to clarify, in the original question, I wasn't referring to the main Catkis gate. I'm referring to when, after you first say the word and go up into the citadel, if you go left instead of forward to Tapi's or right to Oroi's, there is a wrought-iron gate similar in style to some on other moons. When you go close to it, A muses aloud how it was always locked, as long as she remembered, but that she and Oroi used to climb it.

Since I wrote the question I have a few more playthroughs under my belt and I'm fairly certain it is nothing but a curiosity and a mild red herring, maybe a connection to the gates that can't be opened on other moons. :)

[ernstt]

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't remember any place in the game whose name would match the initials "HG". The only "graveyard in a lower area" that I recall, is in Heaven's Vault. But there are no robots there, just the usual recorded personalities of _people_. They also don't speak patois, they speak Ancient.
Patois is an Elborethian dialect that has preserved some words from Ancient, but it's not the same language.

My bad, i have a stubborn brain, which thinks it's Heaven's Gate, hence HG, read HV where i abusively write HG, sorry.

I say robot rememberence, because thats what it is, it's the foil wrapped around the crosses that 'speak' in my visit Six even remarked: ''Actualy they spek with each other"
What Six told me in the GFS (Gods feat slum) is that Ancient and Patois are fillological close relatives, e.g. like Dutch and German, where the Dutch (like me) actually use a lot of ancient german words, were the German's have evolved.
A bit like American's who actually speak a 'older' English than the english.

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

Under which circumstances would Six open the Catkis gate? He explicitly says that it _can't_ be opened because there's literally only rock behind it. And he doesn't know the word(s) to control it, Aliya has to tell it to him.

Well, go and play some more i would say, Six can operate it, furthermore out of what he wanted to tell me, It's the Mainframe Hopper, If you Hopper from another mone with the long distance mode, you end up in Elbereth (Ancient/ Patois for 'City of Thieves')

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

ernstt の投稿を引用：

My hunch is that the Robots all know patois, and can help, but as long as Myari has them gagged with the control word, they are very carefull, so be kind to the robot, it's a quite helpfull guy, and he does *not* report everything to Myari...

No. It is impossible for robots to know patois because patois is an Elborethian dialect, and robots are completely gone from Elboreth for a very long time.

I beg to differ, *nothing* is impossible in HV, Robot's are way more than our Earth's robotniks, they can learn, and if you take the time to let Six ramble on, he will actually learn us a lot too :-)

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

Robots _may_ have knowledge of _Ancient_, but it may be limited to just a few words, and in any case it will be hidden in a sublayer that the robot usually has no access to.

Aren't you forgetting something, or haven't you been to the hermits cove?
In the hopper malfunction cutscene you can talk with Renba, when talking be attentive, because the simple fact Renba has 'hacked' Six, confirms the fact that Six is made aware of his many layers, or round character.

That fact gave me the hunchthat Six is the key to interlunar travel, and to 'opening' the gate to the Eagle's Nest (or Hopper maniframe?)

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

Myari has nothing to do with it - she has a vague hunch that Six is "special", and she knows a few control words, but she has no idea what robots actually are or how they get their personalities, nor would she be able to control them to the extent you imagine. She probably isn't even the primary user of most robots, as she has masters above her.

She is Six master, but there alway's is the Overseer, or Hopper Mainframe. She ever so often uses Six as long distance telephone to monitor Aliya's progress, and the fact that she gave Six, the robot with which Renba traveled as companion (deputy overseer) to Aliya.

It's primary logic that Myari know's way more about robots than any but Renba/Six, she has found the robot burial place, and secured quite u bunch of Aware Robots, some had obviously bad written foils like number 3 who was semi unconsious as you listen to stories about the stupidness of 3.
Why else would give Myari Six to Aliya, but for the simple logical conclusion, she didn't get the info out of Renba/Six, and so cohersed Aliya to revisit al places Renba's/Six 'gps' had stored.
Only in the deep cove on the Hermits moon, the interference of the thunderstorms around teh moon and the thick layers of rock, corrupted Myari's link with Six, so Renba got to talk with what he thought was Myari, but in actual fact was Aliya playacting as Myari...
Don't underestimate Myari, she play's dumbo like a certain president does :-)
Playing dumb is a primary tool of evil rulers, people loose their guard to dumb (acting) evilness.

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

ernstt の投稿を引用：

So the Robots, kan help you Hopper around, is my hunch, the fact he always apears out of knoware if you go awol, confirms the ability of robots to hopper along...

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. ;) Yes, robots can use hoppers. As Six explains, robots carry a source. So if they see an eye, they can use it - which Six does at the Emperors' Graveyard moon and at the Domed Market moon. Obviously, if there is no eye, he can't hopper (as reflected on the Hideout moon, and at the Serpent's Eye). So?

Well my advise would be get Sailing !

There are layers on layers on foils in this game, the visuals are kind of scematic, with sometimes nagging bugs, but the intricate waeving of the many storylines has me really positively baffled, It's if you take the time a real philosofical primer, lot's of age old quotes sail by on the peaces of debris, and it would not wonder me if at the end Aliya is the real Princess, who will be able to open up al gates, if you find enough Gate clues.

Just think about it, i've got Six opening the Catkis gate for me, were he say's simply *open*, the Hoppers beying appendages of the Age of Sail, he speaks Ancient/patois/Arameic, which he must be able to converse with the mainframe, no?

He even will talk about the silly mistake of the Hopper Mainframe, which tells Six where his (six's) property has been found again. Go into the Mine, and exhaust your last breath at the upside down godess hopper... there is even some upside down inscripions lying ouround their, let your strong belief in your own notions be turned upside down by a (not so) silly game.

O i don't think i want to show of my imperial knowledge, because the true wise knows he knows not all, and forgets a lot he thought he knew for shure,
until he got shipwrecked on an seemingly uninhabited shore

I'm just sailing around trying to unvault some knowledge, and Share !