The Vindicator is underpowered

[Mr Ega]

Wielded by a Demolition, the Rocket Launcher can do 16K damage, while firing way faster than the Vindicator, and also while generating its own ammo.

The Vindicator, while doing 12K across the board for all classes (15K -still less than the RL- wielded by an Assault if he equips the skill and dedicates 5 points to said skill -while Demolition has to dedicate 0 for the Rocket Launcher to do 16K damage), costs 6 secondary slots, so if you want to "efficiently" take it, you can only do so with two classes. One of which has the 16K-damage rocket launcher, and the other... well... lmao at taking the Vindicator with it. So, you have to take it with the Assault, who needs to equip 2 extenders, and that means it's not efficient like the Demolition equipping the Rocket Launcher with 0 extenders.

Am I saying it's underpowered because of this? No, I'm saying it's underpowered because of its trick. I'm an advocate of situational things, and the Vindicator seems like a weapon that wants to be that, but fails because its trick isn't that good.

So, I'm talking about the critically-overcharged Vindicator. While some demo can braindeadly spam 16K-damage rockets non-stop all playthrough, in order for you to use the critically-overcharged Vindicator, for a few seconds and just for only 8K more damage, you need:
- A Power Cell
- To have manually grabbed all the ammo.

My ideas for the Vindicator are: leave the standard weapon as it is, but on the critically-overcharged one do this: remove the charging between shots and let it fire one shot immediately after the other, keep the damage of the first shot the same but make the whirlwind do 20K damage for a 32K (35K if the Assault dedicated 5 points to a skill) combined damage.

That way, it has a purpose: to, while doing its trick, blow out of the water all the other weapons, Rocket Launcher included, at dealing with high-threat damage enemies. And its downsides would still be there: the need to manually grab the ammo (Demo can generate 10 for the RL, Assault only the first 2 for V), the need of a Power Cell (Demo doesn't need a Power Cell to dish out 16K damage), its powerful state only lasting for a few seconds and then needing another Power Cell (Demo can spam 16K-damage rockets all the time), and the need to equip 2 extenders if you want to use it on the only class that can do 15K damage with it (Demo doesn't need to equip an extender to use the RL and deal 16K damage with it).

[Kurtino]

Or they could also nerf the rocket launcher because virtually everyone who knows what they're doing is running it because it's so good as a secondary.

[Des]

while the rocket is number 1 for bio mass clearing, it's not great dealing with high hp mobs.
it only has 8k damage not 16 and only shreds 1 armour, when the monsters with 4+ bars of armour show up the rocket launcher doesn't cut it plus it's damage isn't always 8k it has radius falloff, if that mob is attacking a teammate you can not shoot for max damage or you will kill your teammate.

when facing very strong mobs a grenade launcher will do more damage with how armour shredding works.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Des:

while the rocket is number 1 for bio mass clearing, it's not great dealing with high hp mobs.
it only has 8k damage not 16 and only shreds 1 armour, when the monsters with 4+ bars of armour show up the rocket launcher doesn't cut it plus it's damage isn't always 8k it has radius falloff, if that mob is attacking a teammate you can not shoot for max damage or you will kill your teammate.

when facing very strong mobs a grenade launcher will do more damage with how armour shredding works.

With a demo it is 16k, that's the point. Demo makes explosives do 100% more. The rocket also shreds 3 armor per shot. It's not a radius fall off, it is specific enemies are resistant to specific damage types, but behemoths and bigger enemies are generally vulnerable to destructive damage, aka explosive.

[Des]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Des:

while the rocket is number 1 for bio mass clearing, it's not great dealing with high hp mobs.
it only has 8k damage not 16 and only shreds 1 armour, when the monsters with 4+ bars of armour show up the rocket launcher doesn't cut it plus it's damage isn't always 8k it has radius falloff, if that mob is attacking a teammate you can not shoot for max damage or you will kill your teammate.

when facing very strong mobs a grenade launcher will do more damage with how armour shredding works.

With a demo it is 16k, that's the point. Demo makes explosives do 100% more. The rocket also shreds 3 armor per shot. It's not a radius fall off, it is specific enemies are resistant to specific damage types, but behemoths and bigger enemies are generally vulnerable to destructive damage, aka explosive.

i just used demo, shot a mob and it did 8k damage.

[Exuvo]

You are all missing the assault class has a skill called Specialist that can generate infinite ammo for the Vindicator with pretty low cooldown. It also increases the dmg to 15K. Which the power up from powercell doubles i believe. The thin line when fireing the vindicator also does damage so you can hurt things in a line too with an explosion at the end.

I think the vindicator has more range too than rocket launcher.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Des:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

With a demo it is 16k, that's the point. Demo makes explosives do 100% more. The rocket also shreds 3 armor per shot. It's not a radius fall off, it is specific enemies are resistant to specific damage types, but behemoths and bigger enemies are generally vulnerable to destructive damage, aka explosive.

i just used demo, shot a mob and it did 8k damage.

There is a skill demo gets that makes it do double damage.

[Exuvo]

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Or they could also nerf the rocket launcher because virtually everyone who knows what they're doing is running it because it's so good as a secondary.

I disagree, the swarm missiles are also good as they can break armor on a lot of enemies as it has more ammunition per use of generate ammo ability. It can also shoot over buildings which is good if team is a bit split or biomass is on the other side of large buildings.

[Des]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Des:

i just used demo, shot a mob and it did 8k damage.

There is a skill demo gets that makes it do double damage.

so there is, i take back what i said then that skill changes things.

[Exuvo]

It should also be noted that explosive damage (rocket) and energy damage (vindicator) are good for different things. Explosive wins heavily if you are only clearing out biomass but for enemies it changes. Ex Specimen boss is attacking it has 50% explosive resistance but only 20% energy. So having only rocket launchers is not good, you want both in the team.

[Vampire Detective]

When you created this thread, was Rocket Launcher at 16K damage? I'm seeing it as 8K damage. And you are correct with Vindicator at 12K damage.

The developers nerfed it, I am assuming.

The good thing about the Vindicator is that it is energy-based and it has a suppression effect, in which damage bleeds through armor, and the target takes additional damage.

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Or they could also nerf the rocket launcher because virtually everyone who knows what they're doing is running it because it's so good as a secondary.

dunno bro, Elpida unleashes 5 laser doing 6000dmg/s for 3-4 sec Each.; thats like 90-120k damage per skill usage on bigger boss, and its 100% drop rate for biomass even the tougher ones.

+orbital + arty + flare.

its doing so much damage that even monster that have high explo resist still take huge chuck of damage.

[Katitoff]

The "right class" for vindicator will be released in a couple of weeks.

Also, because many people do not know it - use POWER CELL before you shoot Vindicator and report your findings.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Vindicator has some uses but it needs a speedy class that is able to search a lot of lockers, it does a lot more ammo, it's 24 on heavy.

Not to sound like a broken record but someone told me that the terminator was the only class to reliable use the vindicator in red solstice 1.

In a way, the game is early access so we have to see with guns/skills/passives the 2 new classes come.

I really wished they would have done that extra beta so they could have balanced the guns more. It feels like most options for guns have too many negatives in regards to builds and there is a distinct lack of special skills/passives for guns on each class