Clarify me this, would you kindly? SPOILERS ALERT

[Brother Berti]

Already chichéd discussion title pun? Yeah, but my question has to do with exactly that.
What I understand about the "would you kindly" command is that it's a mental conditioning used by Fontaine to command Jack as he feels like. BUT, also that Jack doesn't feel commanded, feels like still having free will (what extands to the player, cool!).
But how would this concept fit into the intro, the plane crash... Or should I say hijacking?
Would not Jack felt the influence of the command, hijacked the plane, and felt oddly to do so? Wouldn't it alert Jack about something wrong going on with him? Not that he would directly understand that he was influenced by "would you kindly", but he certainly would have a notion of losing his free will before "meeting" Atlas by the radio and receiving the command again.
I know we don't see the hijack or anything, that it is a intended missing piece of the puzzle for the player, but how that would be explained in the lore?

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

I think he wipied the memory, as one would imagine that Ryan would have no reason to explain that it was a hijack if jack rembered, also rember to mark spoilers!

[Brother Berti]

Yeah, he didn't know. But we can't quite say if Ryan telling us about it is not just a mere revelation to the player. That's when things turn foggy. Bioshock has a great way to confuse player with characters, that's definitely a huge positive point to it. So it actually doesn't matter what Jack knows, but only what you know. Tricky.
None the less I feel that the plane hijack was a bit of a stretch.

PS.: thanks for the spoiler alert alert!

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Originally posted by Andross:

Yeah, he didn't know. But we can't quite say if Ryan telling us about it is not just a mere revelation to the player. That's when things turn foggy. Bioshock has a great way to confuse player with characters, that's definitely a huge positive point to it. So it actually doesn't matter what Jack knows, but only what you know. Tricky.
None the less I feel that the plane hijack was a bit of a stretch.

PS.: thanks for the spoiler alert alert!

Eh, if he can throw in thoughts of a family, why cant he make a convincing reason to hijack the plane?

[Brother Berti]

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Originally posted by Andross:

Yeah, he didn't know. But we can't quite say if Ryan telling us about it is not just a mere revelation to the player. That's when things turn foggy. Bioshock has a great way to confuse player with characters, that's definitely a huge positive point to it. So it actually doesn't matter what Jack knows, but only what you know. Tricky.
None the less I feel that the plane hijack was a bit of a stretch.

PS.: thanks for the spoiler alert alert!

Eh, if he can throw in thoughts of a family, why cant he make a convincing reason to hijack the plane?

Sure, he did planted it, but when Jack was still a baby and in a lab. At the plane Jack already thinks he has that life and all, he's confortable being an average joe. How could he hijack the plane and still be cool?

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Originally posted by Andross:

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Eh, if he can throw in thoughts of a family, why cant he make a convincing reason to hijack the plane?

Sure, he did planted it, but when Jack was still a baby and in a lab. At the plane Jack already thinks he has that life and all, he's confortable being an average joe. How could he hijack the plane and still be cool?

He's also only 4 years old, so what ever makes him think he had a life also makes him think this is rational. It could also be said that as more proof of the memory's simply being erased, the images of the crash and true family are leaking through jack's vision, or even being used as subliminale(Spelling?) messages by ryan.

[Brother Berti]

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Originally posted by Andross:

Sure, he did planted it, but when Jack was still a baby and in a lab. At the plane Jack already thinks he has that life and all, he's confortable being an average joe. How could he hijack the plane and still be cool?

He's also only 4 years old, so what ever makes him think he had a life also makes him think this is rational. It could also be said that as more proof of the memory's simply being erased, the images of the crash and true family are leaking through jack's vision, or even being used as subliminale(Spelling?) messages by ryan.

I guess you are right. Fontaine could have tweked with his rationality to fit the hijacking.
But again, I think it has little matter, as it's a player directed gizmo to discuss his actions and intentions while playing the game.

[Greldin]

There was no plane. It is an implanted memory, just like the family.

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Originally posted by greldin_gynderham:

There was no plane. It is an implanted memory, just like the family.

There was a plane, atleast if the book counts. If there wasnt a plane, than jack would have had to be in rapture the entire time, which ryan could have very easily killed him in the four years of him doing nothing.

[Brother Berti]

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Originally posted by greldin_gynderham:

There was no plane. It is an implanted memory, just like the family.

There was a plane, atleast if the book counts. If there wasnt a plane, than jack would have had to be in rapture the entire time, which ryan could have very easily killed him in the four years of him doing nothing.

As much as I find it more resonable that there wasn't a plane (as Jack could have died in the hijacking, risky plan), I agree with Commander. Ryan would know and would be difficult to protect Jack through the war. Even counting the book aside, there is the plane crashing into one of the tube corridors at the begining. But again that could be a plane that Fontaine crashed only to back up the implanted memory, but that would be just silly, don't you think?

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Originally posted by Andross:

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

There was a plane, atleast if the book counts. If there wasnt a plane, than jack would have had to be in rapture the entire time, which ryan could have very easily killed him in the four years of him doing nothing.

As much as I find it more resonable that there wasn't a plane (as Jack could have died in the hijacking, risky plan), I agree with Commander. Ryan would know and would be difficult to protect Jack through the war. Even counting the book aside, there is the plane crashing into one of the tube corridors at the begining. But again that could be a plane that Fontaine crashed only to back up the implanted memory, but that would be just silly, don't you think?

Plus, if he crashed the plane, he would probably have had to send a splicer, another risky move. If even one person survived, the world would know about the splicers. Also, the Rapture family worships it in 2, and you see it out side in one of the multiplayer levels.

[Brother Berti]

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Originally posted by Andross:

As much as I find it more resonable that there wasn't a plane (as Jack could have died in the hijacking, risky plan), I agree with Commander. Ryan would know and would be difficult to protect Jack through the war. Even counting the book aside, there is the plane crashing into one of the tube corridors at the begining. But again that could be a plane that Fontaine crashed only to back up the implanted memory, but that would be just silly, don't you think?

Plus, if he crashed the plane, he would probably have had to send a splicer, another risky move. If even one person survived, the world would know about the splicers. Also, the Rapture family worships it in 2, and you see it out side in one of the multiplayer levels.

Yeah, splicers outside Rapture is risky enough. But he could have made it by himself (tho still difficult to believe) or a henchmen (I don´t know the name, but there is that guy that receives your bathsphere in the begning).
I don't remember the plane wreck being worshiped in Bio2! When is that? Why is that? Something to do with Jack freeing Rapture from individualism or something?

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Originally posted by Andross:

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Plus, if he crashed the plane, he would probably have had to send a splicer, another risky move. If even one person survived, the world would know about the splicers. Also, the Rapture family worships it in 2, and you see it out side in one of the multiplayer levels.

Yeah, splicers outside Rapture is risky enough. But he could have made it by himself (tho still difficult to believe) or a henchmen (I don´t know the name, but there is that guy that receives your bathsphere in the begning).
I don't remember the plane wreck being worshiped in Bio2! When is that? Why is that? Something to do with Jack freeing Rapture from individualism or something?

I rember some audio logs about it, and there was a picture of it with some splicers worshiping it.
As for why, I belive Lamb saw this as a holy moment where jack escaped the "Self".

[BlckEagle89]

maybe another guy hujack the plane, a splicer maybe??

[Nerevars Goat Univeron]

Wait, what did jack do on the surface? Some one would have to notice if some one looked 10 one year and 30 the next, right?

[Brother Berti]

Originally posted by Commander PewPew:

Wait, what did jack do on the surface? Some one would have to notice if some one looked 10 one year and 30 the next, right?

He was probably raised/cared by Fontaine's people.