Bioshock's Perfect Political Themes

[The Deadhood]

The politics in this game show's Ayn Rand's logical conclusions and the game takes a dump on her, objectivism, capitalism, individualism, selfishness, and other rightwing failed ideologies. Altruism is not evil and makes the world better.

[The Deadhood]

Originally posted by BigDad:

i always thought it was more about culture of isolationism or how you can build heaven in a separate part of the world, in a sense its not about politics but humans pretending to be god or when people always think it is just a set of laws in a society which they flee as the problem, ie attributing a set of arbitrary rules as cause of existential crisis when people feel if it is in their way it can fixed by making their own "laws that will make it fixed", not accounting for human factor or inherent frailty of human nature, ie giving humans godlike attributes, not taking in account animal nature or sin, or just general inability to comprehend universe fully.

That's a great way of interpreting and analyzing it. But by the devs themselves and Kevin Levine's own words, Bioshock is clearly a critique which deconstructs Ayn Rand's philosophy and dismantles Objectivism and Capitalism by showing it's horrifying and logical conclusions which is full of misery and bloodshed. Andrew Ryan himself is pretty much a male version of Ayn Rand and even shares the same initials. Bioshock is insanely about politics and is very politically charged which is why it's still talked about today. It is one of the greatest pieces of art that exposes Capitalism for what it makes people into. While Bioshock has aged poorly when it comes to the gameplay itself, the world building, political themes, and writing is what makes this game a great example of political commentary. Bioshock 2 is the best game in the franchise easily at least for me.

[rogerbt]

I am a traditional conservative, and do not agree with objectivism at all, but...

If you take it as a commentary on objectivism it is horribly inaccurate. Andrew Ryan does not behave as an objectivist.

One of the most glaring example of the inconsistency between objectivism and Rapture is that Andrew Ryan blocked importation of goods to Rapture. Remember the death penalty for smugglers, and impounded crates of illegally imported goods?

Objectivism is strongly in favor of the free market, including free trade of from other places.

Andrew Ryan refused to let people leave Rapture. Ayn Rand was strongly in favor of the right to immigrate and emigrate.

Objectivist don't also believe in murdering people, tryanny, etc like Andrew Ryan practiced.

As a commentary on objectivism, capitalism, right wing politics etc, the game is utter crap. Andrew Ryan is a lunatic, spouting objectivist phrases while doing the exact opposite of the values he espouses.

However, if you view it as a commentary on the corruption of power, and the how utopias usually fall away from their own values, it seems spot on. I suspect this is what the creators intended, though it is not clear so far (I have not finished the game).

[cis "people" are disgusting]

Im fairly surprised the discussion has been as civil considering the topic. Great point btw @rogerbt

[Filth Burglar]

Whats your BMI doe

[cis "people" are disgusting]

Originally posted by Eat3n:

1) Of course an irrational unhinged leftist would say as such...nice profile dude.

2) Altruism doesn't exist anywhere naturally...especially in your godless anti-capitalist communist "utopias". You look at China and records from the Soviet Union they both have/had massive moral crises in their countries. Shocker i know that countries with massive surveillance instead of trust only breeds suspicion and mistrust amongst everyone. Ratting on your neighbor and everyone around you...absolutely common. You forgot to mention that Ayn Rand lived under Communism and fled West, why do so many flee Communism to the "evil" of Capitalism?

3) Capitalism isn't the problem, you are an absolute idiot if you believe that. You want to point to corruption and crony capitalism...absolutely blame those, but capitalism in general is just a tool, you are just wrong. Would you call to ban hammers just because someone used it to murder someone? No. Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty FASTER than anything in history. Your precious left wing policies haven't done ♥♥♥♥. China's rise...because they ditched the left wing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and adopted "evil capitalist" ideas which have resulted in tens of millions of people getting out of crippling poverty, China's rise to global power, and you buying cheap ♥♥♥♥ in the U.S. Vietnam is another example, their Left-wing policies kept the country poor and hungry but since they've adopted "evil capitalist" policies they are far better off.

>Calling someone an irrational unhinged leftist, whatever that might mean.

>Inmediately, without prompt or reason goes on a rant about China and the USSR and the merits of capitalism in the real world, all of course are completely beside the point when talking about the game.

[The Deadhood]

Originally posted by TeamWorkOPVolvoPleaseNerf:

Originally posted by Eat3n:

1) Of course an irrational unhinged leftist would say as such...nice profile dude.

2) Altruism doesn't exist anywhere naturally...especially in your godless anti-capitalist communist "utopias". You look at China and records from the Soviet Union they both have/had massive moral crises in their countries. Shocker i know that countries with massive surveillance instead of trust only breeds suspicion and mistrust amongst everyone. Ratting on your neighbor and everyone around you...absolutely common. You forgot to mention that Ayn Rand lived under Communism and fled West, why do so many flee Communism to the "evil" of Capitalism?

3) Capitalism isn't the problem, you are an absolute idiot if you believe that. You want to point to corruption and crony capitalism...absolutely blame those, but capitalism in general is just a tool, you are just wrong. Would you call to ban hammers just because someone used it to murder someone? No. Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty FASTER than anything in history. Your precious left wing policies haven't done ♥♥♥♥. China's rise...because they ditched the left wing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and adopted "evil capitalist" ideas which have resulted in tens of millions of people getting out of crippling poverty, China's rise to global power, and you buying cheap ♥♥♥♥ in the U.S. Vietnam is another example, their Left-wing policies kept the country poor and hungry but since they've adopted "evil capitalist" policies they are far better off.

>Calling someone an irrational unhinged leftist, whatever that might mean.

>Inmediately, without prompt or reason goes on a rant about China and the USSR and the merits of capitalism in the real world, all of course are completely beside the point when talking about the game.

LOL Ignore these monkeys, they are unhinged rightoid Neo Nazis and Fascists who literally worship Trump like a God and idolize Kyle Rittenhouse for murdering two BlackLivesMatter Civil Rights Activists. They fantasize about killing black people which is why they defend every cop who murders a black person and even try to pass laws like Bill 666 which would legalize lynchings. Yeah these savages will double speak and praise China for embracing Capitalism and Industrialization but will claim it's a communist authoritarian dystopia. Also Capitalism doesn't seem to be helping Russia at all since the collapse of the USSR considering Russia is still a third world Fascist and authoritarian 1984 regime full of gangsters and hookers under Putin. Also these Nazis will talk about how they're not racist but fear monger about black Haitians and other dark skinned immigrants coming to the border and how "white" demographics are declining which is basically a self report.

[The Deadhood]

Originally posted by rogerbt:

I am a traditional conservative, and do not agree with objectivism at all, but...

If you take it as a commentary on objectivism it is horribly inaccurate. Andrew Ryan does not behave as an objectivist.

One of the most glaring example of the inconsistency between objectivism and Rapture is that Andrew Ryan blocked importation of goods to Rapture. Remember the death penalty for smugglers, and impounded crates of illegally imported goods?

Objectivism is strongly in favor of the free market, including free trade of from other places.

Andrew Ryan refused to let people leave Rapture. Ayn Rand was strongly in favor of the right to immigrate and emigrate.

Objectivist don't also believe in murdering people, tryanny, etc like Andrew Ryan practiced.

As a commentary on objectivism, capitalism, right wing politics etc, the game is utter crap. Andrew Ryan is a lunatic, spouting objectivist phrases while doing the exact opposite of the values he espouses.

However, if you view it as a commentary on the corruption of power, and the how utopias usually fall away from their own values, it seems spot on. I suspect this is what the creators intended, though it is not clear so far (I have not finished the game).

My friend, conservatives do not want immigrants from "the third world" or mainly countries full of dark skinned people. Conservatives also oppose goods from certain countries which is why the Trade War was a thing and was a complete disaster for the US. Conservatives champion the death penalty because they don't believe in rehabilitation and believe in Revenge and Punishment. Ayn Rand is a neo Fascist who was partly responsible for the Red Scare. She supported the ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinians which continues to this very day. She was a hypocrite who lived off the Government yet says others who do that are "parasites". That's literally the point of Andrew Ryan. he is a Capitalist hypocrite who loves capitalism yet hates all the things that make capitalism function properly. Also traditional conservatives were trying to "conserve" all kinds of barbaric practices, like slavery, jim crow, segregation, suppression of women's rights, traditional family values, conversion therapy for gay people, and all kinds of Fascist norms back then. Andrew Ryan became more and more of a Fascist authoritarian dictator due to the flaws of his own philosophy. When Andrew Ryan used pheromones to control the minds and thoughts of Rapture's citizens in order to win the Rapture Civil War it literally resembled 1984 at that point.

[Bison]

I know this thread is about first Bioshock, but what about Sophia Lamb and her ideology? Its been long time since i played second Bioshock but it apeared to me Lamb created a social experiment in pursuit of her personal goal and masked it as a religion mixed with socialism?

[The Deadhood]

Originally posted by Nr.3 Bison:

I know this thread is about first Bioshock, but what about Sophia Lamb and her ideology? Its been long time since i played second Bioshock but it apeared to me Lamb created a social experiment in pursuit of her personal goal and masked it as a religion mixed with socialism?

She was an insane cultist and used "collectivism" to control the masses of Rapture. She was basically Stalin operating a Cult of Personality. Socialism and Religion don't really coexist. Also Sophia Lamb was a Karen who didn't want Subject Delta to see her daughter Eleanor.

[20000Aggro]

I saw absolutely none of this my first playthrough, back in 2013. Sometimes I wonder if people read too much into the story of certain games and project. Otherwise I remember absolutely no political dialogue at all. It would be funny if people calling it a masterpiece ended up only perceiving politics in a way that the developers hadn't intended.

I've noticed that people who care more about politics often tend to like to see politics in everything they do even if it's not actually relevant to anything. To me the game was just a failed Utopia, and could have been more of commentary on human nature than politics.

[KZ_Understanding_the_Rain_000]

I always thought the political commentary in Bioshlock was quite juvenile.

"Look, without any form of regulation the plastic surgeon turned into Picasso and the performance artist starts torturing people!"

Give me a break.

[The Deadhood]

Originally posted by JohnChronic:

I always thought the political commentary in Bioshlock was quite juvenile.

"Look, without any form of regulation the plastic surgeon turned into Picasso and the performance artist starts torturing people!"

Give me a break.

Don't be obtuse, Dr. Steinman was already deranged and insane before he came to Rapture, it's just without any morality or regulation enforcement and laws he could let loose and allow his most darkest desires to dictate his talents. Also the drug ADAM made him even more insane and psychopathic. Also back then people who raping and bashing eachothers brains out with rocks before law or civilization was a concept. Without morality, people would just eat one another. That's the point of Andrew Ryan's failed Objectivist "utopia".

[KZ_Understanding_the_Rain_000]

I think objectivists would tend to believe in objective standards of beauty though. Wouldn't objectivists be against that type of subversive, post-modernist reasoning Dr. Steinman uses to justify his mutilations (he talks about unleashing his creativity, battling against traditional standards of beauty)?

I think this is touched on in Bioshock 2 during the art gallery segment, where we learn that Andrew Ryan himself was very much in favour of traditional ideals of beauty and art.

[cis "people" are disgusting]

Originally posted by JohnChronic:

Look, without any form of regulation the plastic surgeon turned into Picasso and the performance artist starts torturing people.

Yeah the point is that such a system allows for such kind of people to filter through, not much better what you described but hey at least theres context.

Indeed when Steinman shows you the different corpses none of them have anything to do with what he explains(too fat, too symmetrical, etc), perhaps to prove his insanity but i would indeed have preferred an exploration of beauty and perhaps make Steinman a more important character to allow it, whether it would have been possible or been handled remotely decently in 2008 by a AAA game with 2K games as publisher is another matter entirely...

[Life's a Party, Rock Your Body]

Originally posted by JuanChrónique:

I always thought the political commentary in Bioshlock was quite juvenile.

"Look, without any form of regulation the plastic surgeon turned into Picasso and the performance artist starts torturing people!"

Give me a break.

to be fair, if you're looking for nuanced political commentary in a video game then that's kind of dumb.

Bioshock was making a point, but was still a video game first and still had to make the people you were shooting at worth your time to shoot at.

I think the game did a wonderful job as a critique of it's medium, with the twist being an eye-opener on perceived player agency and freedom in games. Really cool.